If born male you biologically stay male until you die? Yes?

[daisiesonmydress]

Just that really. That's my understanding. No matter how you dress or what surgery you have?

And you can legally say this too?

[quote EmpressCixi]@RVN123
Ethics has NOTHING to do with if the patient is willing or paying for a procedure. Are you serious?

Yes, I find it strange you think ethics has nothing to do with whether the person is consenting to the surgery? So consent is what, not part of ethical clinical practice?[/quote]
This is NOT what I said and you know it.

Consent is not the ONLY thing that ethics is concerned with, otherwise you would have many many mentally disturbed patients willing to do all manner of things to their bodies with their consent.

You really are out of your depth here, you clearly know nothing about scientific ethics and clinical trials otherwise you would not have posted such a laughable statement.

Absolute horseshit re vaginal cuffs.

You posited that transmen could donate their “uterus/cervix/vaginal cuffs”. This is exactly how you phrased it.

Nobody has a combination of “uterus/cervix/vaginal cuff” to donate because the vaginal cuff is created during the removal of the uterus and the cervix to form a replacement that serves a similar purpose as the cervix. You either have a uterus and cervix or a vaginal cuff.

The way you phrased it makes abundantly clear that you are here regurgitating words that you have read, without the slightest understanding of what you’re on about, and you’re also lying.

To what end, I have no idea.

And how can it be “unethical” if the person being operated on is not only consenting but paying for the surgery?

I am laughing at this.

To the tune of Heigh Ho. Apologies to Disney, W.

I dig dig dig dig dig dig dig in this thread the whole day through,
To dig dig dig dig dig dig dig is what I really like to do.
It ain't no trick to prove I'm thick
If I dig dig dig with a shovel or a pick
In this thread! In this thread! In this thread! In this thread!
Where facts are something I dread!

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

You do from cadavers. You could from transmen if they consent. They’re not going to want/need their vagina.

This is astonishing ignorant and transphobic. Have you never met any transmen ever? It is more routine than not for transmen to keep their vaginas.

I’m transphobic? What a laugh. Of course I’m not talking about transmen who don’t want a full hysterectomy and neo-penis. I’m talking about those that do may want to donate instead of bin.

Also, how the hell do you transplant a vagina? It's like transplanting a throat.

How would the donor be able to walk after having something so central to the pelvis carved out, along with the surrounding ring of muscle?

@PurgatoryOfPotholes
Also, how the hell do you transplant a vagina? It's like transplanting a throat.

You don’t. You obviously don’t know the difference between a vaginal cuff and a vagina. Hint: it’s not the vagina.

Harold

@Sophoclesthefox

Harold

Naughty step for me, I know, I know....

Reading this thread, I do very much have the image of a giant fanny floating around untethered from physical reality.

Of course I’m not talking about transmen who don’t want a full hysterectomy and neo-penis. I’m talking about those that do may want to donate instead of bin.

The number of ones who want a neopenis is vanishingly tiny and of those, some want their vagina intact. In any case it is not removed, the area is rearranged to the benefit of the patient.

If a recipient was part of the equation, it would lead to compromises being made with the donor's living body.

[quote EmpressCixi]@PurgatoryOfPotholes
Also, how the hell do you transplant a vagina? It's like transplanting a throat.

You don’t. You obviously don’t know the difference between a vaginal cuff and a vagina. Hint: it’s not the vagina.[/quote]
You have been told repeatedly that vaginal cuff is not the phrase you want.

I think you are trying to describe the uppermost region of the vagina which is removed in a hysterectomy?

@Sophoclesthefox

Absolute horseshit re vaginal cuffs.

You posited that transmen could donate their “uterus/cervix/vaginal cuffs”. This is exactly how you phrased it.

Nobody has a combination of “uterus/cervix/vaginal cuff” to donate because the vaginal cuff is created during the removal of the uterus and the cervix to form a replacement that serves a similar purpose as the cervix. You either have a uterus and cervix or a vaginal cuff.

The way you phrased it makes abundantly clear that you are here regurgitating words that you have read, without the slightest understanding of what you’re on about, and you’re also lying.

To what end, I have no idea.

Wrong. The vaginal cuff refers to the upper part of the vagina.

To do a UTx woman to woman, yes you are right, the donating woman only donates uterus plus cervix because the recipient woman has a vagina. The donors upper vagina is sutured off and called a vaginal cuff. But we’re not discussing uterine donation between women, but to a transwoman.

But to do a UTx from to a trans woman you’d need to also take the vaginal cuff(upper part) so you could attach the uterus/cervix/vaginal cuff to the trans woman’s neo-vagina. Otherwise there is no way in for IVF.

Well done. You've realised that a male recipient means the female donor has more removed from her than she otherwise would and that this is not to her benefit.

@RVN123
You’re the one that said:
Ethics has NOTHING to do with if the patient is willing

You really are out of your depth here, you clearly know nothing about scientific ethics and clinical trials otherwise you would not have posted such a laughable statement.

But to do a UTx from to a trans woman you’d need to also take the vaginal cuff(upper part) so you could attach the uterus/cervix/vaginal cuff to the trans woman’s neo-vagina. Otherwise there is no way in for IVF

And a transman would do this because....?

I think they are dead in the scenario presented earlier

You really are out of your depth here, you clearly know nothing about scientific ethics and clinical trials otherwise you would not have posted such a laughable statement

Projecting much?

Of course I’m not talking about transmen who don’t want a full hysterectomy and neo-penis. I’m talking about those that do may want to donate instead of bin.

Sounds transphobic to me. Donating medical waste? And I'm assuming the transman's uterus hadn't atrophied due to testosterone use?

Are you talking about an untransitioned transman?

Nuh-uh. You're thinking of the segment discussing current adult female humans on testosterone (who had not been on blockers) against adult female humans not on testosterone.

Seriously. The relevant section was posted pages ago.

I am waiting for empress to point out exactly where they read that females after puberty blockers had ‘robust’ male like bones in that study.

It has got more bizarre as the thread has gone on.

A dead untransitioned transman in fact?

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Well done. You've realised that a male recipient means the female donor has more removed from her than she otherwise would and that this is not to her benefit.

Obviously. Surprised you didn’t pick up on it and I had to spell it out for you. On the question of benefit....disagree given the donor pools being considered:

If the donor is a transman who wants a neo-penis, it is to his benefit

And there is no benefit or loss to a donor that is already dead, although the family may be comforted to know their loved one gave the gift of fertility to another woman or transwoman.

You see these donor pools being considered are not just for transwomen, but the thousands of women born with no uterus.

I first asked to go on the donor register aged 6. I have a donor card in my wallet right now.

If this becomes a serious possibility, I will be putting it in my notes and telling my entire family that I do not consent to donating my uterus in the wake of my death.

@RufustheFloralmissingreindeer

You really are out of your depth here, you clearly know nothing about scientific ethics and clinical trials otherwise you would not have posted such a laughable statement

Projecting much?

It was said to me first, I cut and pasted it back to the person who said it to me. So not projection, but reflection.

The transwoman already had fertility ( at least before they chose to eradicate it)

Male fertility..sperm production