"What are your pronouns?" Best response for a 14 yo?

[RhymesWithOrange]

DD is as well informed as I can manage on pronoun nonsense but we're both stumped for the best response if a friend asks her "what are your pronouns?"

Any advice on challenging/deflecting? With close friends she jokes (she's identified as a Samsung refrigerator, pronouns ice/tray, for a while now) but with people she knows less well it's harder to pull off.

Thank you

@BackwardsTurret

We've been teaching our children to be polite for generations. In truth there is probably far less gender based etiquette than there has ever been in this society. And what is viewed as polite changes over time.

You'll be waiting a long time if you think you're slipping gender pronouns in under the guise of being polite.

It's virtue signalling aggressive bollocks designed to weed out the non believers.

And we may have been teaching generations of children, particularly girls, to be kind and polite. Put their own feelings last. And you're right, what is viewed as being polite does change over time. After all women have been polite about many things they feel uncomfortable about for many years. This has changed. There is no need to be polite to chancers and manipulators.

The new generation of girls are learning something new. And that is to say No. They don't need to be polite and kind to those who have relied on those traits to seek advantage for themselves and destroy women's safeguards.

So on that note, Happy Christmas and a big fat NO to you. And heres to an extremely impolite new year.

Whoop! Let 2022 be the year of speaking truths.

@barleybadminton

My kids have very good manners. They wont accept people forcing their language in an ideology they dont believe in. And nor should they. The obnoxious brats would be the ones harassing them to give out pronouns even though its clearly not welcomed. That is disgustingly rude and controlling.

How is it obnoxious to ask someone how they'd like to be referred as? They aren't asking you to accept their pronouns, they are just being polite. They might have to do it because of their work. How on earth is asking how would you like to be addressed 'disgustingly rude and controlling'?

If someone tells you their name, how on earth does it make sense to ask their pronouns? If my name is Mary, are you going to call me 'she'? Or are you going to call me Mary? Asking pronouns is rude and impolite. My NAME is MARY. Not 'she', 'he' or 'they' or 'them'. MARY. It is a NAME.

@barleybadminton If someone tells you their name, why isn't that enough?

Did names become extinct?

@ItIsntWhatYouThinkItIs

Did names become extinct?

Names are for dinosaurs!

[quote ItIsntWhatYouThinkItIs]@barleybadminton If someone tells you their name, why isn't that enough?[/quote]
Of course pronouns are necessary unless you want conversation to be clunky and unnatural.

So you're Mary. We're sat chatting to others. You tell me something. Another person chips in. I say, "Oh Mary was just saying that she likes to rock climb too." Or do I say, "Oh Mary was just saying that Mary likes to rock climb too." This is just one of many examples. Yes often you wouldn't use third person pronouns because it would be rude but there are plenty of situations where it would be weird and unnatural to keep using someone's name instead of he/she.

Wouldn’t you just say “oh, you were just saying that, weren’t you, Mary?”

@Deliriumoftheendless

Wouldn’t you just say “oh, you were just saying that, weren’t you, Mary?”

Yep.

Nope. Cos I'm talking to Dave not Mary.

Mary is only half listening. She's sat next to me but has just been collared by Geoff who's talking to her about his stamps.

Shad - but Mary is a woman’s name! So once you’ve established that’s her name you don’t need to ask her what sex she is! And of course the fact that humans are very good at telling what sex someone is by using their eyes and ears.

Majesty

I think "whatever's easiest" is a usefully passive-aggressive response to being asked for pronouns. Followed up by some "Honestly, I don't mind!" if necessary.

It seeds the idea that possibly some of the pronoun people are just trying to make everyone else's lives difficult, but it's very hard to argue with.

unless you want your kid to grow up to be the kind of obnoxious entitled brat who doesn't think they have to say please and thank you
What @barleybadminton clearly hasn't comprehended is that the 'obnoxious, entitled brat' here is the one changing her pronouns every five minutes and demanding that everyone else dances to her tune. If you've ever been bullied, you will understand that rolling over to their demands doesn't work. The OP's daughter is quite right to stand up to this bullyand refuse to play her games.

I'm aware by the way that I have probably "misgendered" QB a few times in the last post. Don't worry though, 'she/her' will be the correct ones again shortly...

@Shadeelane

Mary is only half listening. She's sat next to me but has just been collared by Geoff who's talking to her about his stamps.

Mary is only half listening. They're sat next to me but has just been collared by Geoff who's talking to her about his stamps.

@Shadeelane did you just assume Mary and Geoff's genders?

How on earth did you know that Mary wants to be called "she/her" and Geoff wants to be called "he/him" without starting the meal with some kind of around-the-table icebreaker where you all declare your pronouns, religions and star signs so that no one's in any doubt?

Or is it pretty obvious that Mary is a woman and that Geoff is a man?

I was trying to think about some of the responses. If I wanted to keep things level without going into details I'd say 'It's private' (because I see it as a question crossing my privacy boundary) or simply 'I don't, thank you for asking'.

@DdraigGoch
They told me in the WhatsApp group

She/her

@Sittinginthesand

Shad - but Mary is a woman’s name! So once you’ve established that’s her name you don’t need to ask her what sex she is! And of course the fact that humans are very good at telling what sex someone is by using their eyes and ears.

I've not said owt about asking her what her sex is. Or her pronouns. My point is you can't always get away with not using them when said person is present. It was in response to someone who repeatedly said you don't need them. Well unless you really concentrate on what you're saying and try to reword everything - you do.

[quote Shadeelane]@DdraigGoch
They told me in the WhatsApp group[/quote]
How odd. I've never announced my pronouns, nor ever felt the need to ask someone else. I just seem to instinctively know what to call Dave and Sue, even if I haven't yet met in person. It doesn't even take long to work out what to call Sam.

Well yes. In the real world🤷

I would just laugh and not answer. Shows the ridiculousness for what it is, and means the person has to use the obvious, sex-based pronouns themselves.

[quote ItIsntWhatYouThinkItIs]@barleybadminton Marriage isn't a feminist issue. It isn't a patriachal issue. It is a LEGAL issue. It is about legal recognition and protection.

It's simple politeness, unless you want your kid to grow up to be the kind of obnoxious entitled brat

Wow. I think you are the one who sounds like an obnoxious entitled brat here. If someone tells you their name, you address them as their name. If someone says their name is Mary, you would address them as Mary. Nothing else is needed, is there. Pronouns are superfluous and unnecessary.[/quote]
Marriage isn't a feminist issue.

Missed this bit just wow. Perhaps not if you are economically independent and comfortably middle class but for many if not most women in the world marriage is both socially and economically coerced. And that includes the UK where the benefits system is precision designed to try and force lone parents into economic dependency to a male partner.

That's before you get to the many and varied feminist critiques of monogamy and the nuclear family.

If someone says their name is Mary, you would address them as Mary. Nothing else is needed, is there. Pronouns are superfluous and unnecessary.

I do realise the gender critical movement is skewed towards the privileged but it may suprise you to know that many service sector workers are expected to use terms like Sir or Madam and so quietly enquiring what someone's pronouns are if it doesn't appear obvious is simply them trying to do their job without causing offence. The last thing they need or deserve is to deal with some entitled and rude teenager who's been by groomed by their parent into turning every possible social interaction into a chance to score points in the culture war against trans people.

The last thing they need or deserve is to deal with some entitled and rude teenager who's been by groomed by their parent into turning every possible social interaction into a chance to score points in the culture war against trans people.

The last thing anyone needs or deserve is to have deal with some entitled and rude woke teenager /adult, with their camera phone and sadness at the ready, who's been by groomed by their equally woke, hard of thinking, parent / peers into turning every possible social interaction into a chance to score points in the purity spiral, against people whose pronouns are damn obvious and always have been.

My kids say no to your pronouns. And so do I.