"What are your pronouns?" Best response for a 14 yo?

[RhymesWithOrange]

DD is as well informed as I can manage on pronoun nonsense but we're both stumped for the best response if a friend asks her "what are your pronouns?"

Any advice on challenging/deflecting? With close friends she jokes (she's identified as a Samsung refrigerator, pronouns ice/tray, for a while now) but with people she knows less well it's harder to pull off.

Thank you

@Alayalaya

Personally I don’t identify with any gender because gender is oppressive. I don’t think it’s right to force people into a stereotype or put them in a box. My biological sex is female, I don’t have a gender identity.

As a 14 year old I probably wouldn’t say that though! To avoid difficulties and bullying I’d probably just say please use whatever pronouns you think are appropriate.

I agree with you but I think this is considered transphobic as it suggests GC which seems to be considered synonymous with transphobia.

And equally the suggestions that she should say she/her just to fit in or be kind are also wrong

Mean?

'I'd rather be rude than a fucking liar.'

Merry Christmas!

'Oh, are you STILL doing that?! It's nearly 2022!'

'Say what you see!'

@ArabellaScott

Is this the whole 'disagreement is hatred' thing? Is that what it is? Can you not understand that some people don't share your views, Vice? Do you see it as hostility if someone says clearly and politely that they disagree? Genuine question.

I do prefer to be polite and non-confrontational in general. I absolutely don't believe that disagreement is hatred, but I also pick my battles. An opening question of "what are your pronouns" wouldn't cause me to engage full TERF mode.

(and now I'm totally torn between wanting to add a disclaimer that I completely understand that other people have different thresholds etc etc, whilst at the same time not wanting to come across as a spineless, grovelling people pleaser- oh the irony 🤣🤣🤣)

If someone identifies as a woman pronouns are she/her generally. If as a man he/him. It doesn't matter what they were born as.

If I am dealing with someone wearing a frock or other female attributes I will call them she/her - even if I can see a five o'clock shadow.

If I am dealing with someone dressed as a man I will address them as he/him even if there are some female attributes.

The fact that the two people above are presenting themselves as female and male speaks for itself imo.

I am female, I have breasts, femininity styled hair, wear make-up and traditionally feminine jewellery. My name is feminine, it has an ia ending and my title is Mrs. I find it hard to imagine my pronouns weren't blindingly obvious. Same for dh in reverse. Also the same for my dc who whilst heterosexual are more on trend with it. Nevertheless dd has long blonde hair, size 3 feet and is a soprano. It's hard to argue she is anything other than female.

@KurtWildesChristmasNamechange

Wow you lot are mean!

Merry Christmas

Am I ok to say that without offending anyone?

Mean?

Are you serious? The women on this board fight TIRELESSLY for women's rights, often to the detriment of their professional reputations. So please don't call us "mean".

A male rapist being housed in a female prison, or a male paedophile insisting on being called "she", or a male swimmer beating the female world record - those things are "mean".

Surely asking someone their pronouns is so, so rude. It's akin to saying you look a bit like you could be a bloke? I would be so offended if someone asked me this in real life. Fucking hell, do young people have no manners?

There are currently a couple of posts on this board showing Male offenders being referred to as She/Her. This is where this bollocks has got us.

Call me by by name to my face. When you're talking about me use whatever pronouns you feel suit.

Make Sex offenders that should be.

RosesAndHellebores
What would you refer to me as? I spend my workdays in uniform- a baggy unisex T-shirt, work trousers with lots of pockets, unisex safety shoes. I have short hair, short nails, never wear make-up or nail polish or jewellery.
I do have a female body.

On some of my days off I wear clothes sold as "men's", on some days dresses, and on some days it will happen to be a mixture eg. "women's" jeans and a "men's" shirt. Would you think you should use different pronouns to refer to me on different days, depending on how I was dressed? What if you had to talk to someone about me, but hadn't seen me that day, so didn't know what I was wearing? What pronouns would you use then?

“If I am dealing with someone dressed as a man I will address them as he/him even if there are some female attributes.”

How would you define “dressed as a man” though? I often wear men’s clothes as they fit me better. I’m not a man and I don’t use he/him pronouns.

" 'I' and 'me' - those are the ones I use, and the only ones I have legitimate control over - you can refer to me using any ones you have control over - whichever ones make you feel most comfortable feel free to use." OR "I'm not quite at the stage to make a public statement about this so whatever makes you feel comfortable or as you perceive them is fine by me" I think these are polite enough and inoffensive.

@ArabellaScott

Mean?

'I'd rather be rude than a fucking liar.'

Merry Christmas!

👏👏👏👏👏

@Bergamotte if I wasn't sure I'd call you your name if I knew it to your face. To others probably as "the scruffy person".

I'd be tempted to say 'I'm not really a spiritual person, do I don't declare pronouns like that because it's not something I believe in, but I'm ok if you do it'.

If someone messages her, just ignore. If they start being pushy, I'd be tempted to say that pushing someone to reveal their pronouns before they're ready is not a progressive thing to do. If they still wonder what to call her, just say to stick to the current social pronoun norms of someone who looks like her until she's ready to discuss the matter.

He him or lord or sir.

Just answer the question how it was obviously intended.

@Blessex

I am an atheist so don’t do pronouns

Excellent. I will be using this from now on

@JennieLee

Sex-based like my oppression.

This

Let's face it, no one is really interested in hearing about other
people's pronouns, they just want an excuse to talk about theirs

This is true. So if you dont want to cause offence/start a fight/have to defend your stance, just ask them about theirs and what it means to them. Get them talking and lead them on til they are exhausted. Job done.

@KurtWildesChristmasNamechange

Wow you lot are mean!

Merry Christmas

Am I ok to say that without offending anyone?

Not offended. Astounded by your naivety.

Is that mean?

I would suggest you wander on to the feminist board more often and try to understand exactly what the problem is here. Maybe you would discover that's it's nothing to do with being mean at all.

Merry Christmas

'I don't understand your question'.

@RosesAndHellebores

If someone identifies as a woman pronouns are she/her generally. If as a man he/him. It doesn't matter what they were born as.

If I am dealing with someone wearing a frock or other female attributes I will call them she/her - even if I can see a five o'clock shadow.

If I am dealing with someone dressed as a man I will address them as he/him even if there are some female attributes.

The fact that the two people above are presenting themselves as female and male speaks for itself imo.

I am female, I have breasts, femininity styled hair, wear make-up and traditionally feminine jewellery. My name is feminine, it has an ia ending and my title is Mrs. I find it hard to imagine my pronouns weren't blindingly obvious. Same for dh in reverse. Also the same for my dc who whilst heterosexual are more on trend with it. Nevertheless dd has long blonde hair, size 3 feet and is a soprano. It's hard to argue she is anything other than female.

So Alex Drummond and the beard would be ? Because if you said he then by all accounts you would be transphobic. Yet Alex dresses as female coded or male coded and always has the beard. Alex is widening the bandwith of being a woman. Then theres pips bunce who somedays dresses in a woman dress, and other days a mans suit. How would you refer to pips?

Alex and Pips.