BBC 100 Women List - Gender is contentious

[highame]

I'm sure there was a thread but I can't find anywhere. Did it get deleted. Anyway, here's a good article by James Kirkup

www.spectator.co.uk/article/gender-is-contentious-the-bbc-is-pretending-it-isn-t

This is yet another fine article from James Kirkup
The continuation of this argument is that including transwomen in the category of women is harmful to natal women and against the interests of natal women. These harms can take many forms. In law and policy, the 'transwomen are women' approach can mean the erosion or removal of boundaries around single-sex spaces. In culture and society, 'transwomen are women' diverts attention from — and potentially devalues — the unique experiences that natal women have based on their female biology and socialisation.

And when finite resources are allocated, 'transwomen are women' means that some things that might otherwise have been allocated to natal women are given to people who were born male. It is a simple statement of fact that because the BBC awarded some places on its 100 Women list to transwomen, those places — and the status and acclaim they bring — cannot be given to natal women.

He has a fine way with words

BBC misogyny at it’s finest.

I had a too brief flick through the list first thing this morning, and thought phew, it actually is 100 women.
I wish....

Thank goodness for James Kirkup a man can say it even if women are not allowed

Natal Women seems a better phrase than CIS Women. I'd prefer Women to mean as it does in the dictionary, but if you have to have a term, then natal women is less jarring.

Ah another thread aimed to bash women who are more successful than the commenters. All 100 women deserve their place on the list, only men and misogynists seem to disagree

@Beamur

Placemarking to read later

That's optimistic!

@HelplesslyHoping

Ah another thread aimed to bash women who are more successful than the commenters. All 100 women deserve their place on the list, only men and misogynists seem to disagree

Any chance you could actually engage with what people are saying rather than plopping with your accusations?

There are three women who deserve to be on that list.

That thing sailing over your head helpless is the point.

There is much I would like to say. However like the three women pushed off the list to virtue signal how much more important one biological sex is than the other (regardless of how much everyone is forced to pretend sex is not a thing) if I try to say it I shall be vanished.

Riddikulus.

I question the inclusion of Rebel Wilson and Vera Wang but it looked like the other 95 women were very impressive humans indeed.

I haven't noticed anyone bashing anyone. I have only seen people agreeing wholeheartedly with the Spectator article, which spelt out very clearly that all 100 people on the list were very impressive. That much we can all agree on.

@FuckeryOmbudsman

'Old lady moment'

WTAF - ageism and sexism in one comment

Please do not write off older women in this way. It's not light-hearted or funny. It's everyday sexism and casual ageism

Even if it’s self-disparaging????

I have nothing to say on this issue. Shh, be quiet, it's all fine.

Home from work to find that my original thread on this had been deleted. FFS, in what world is it sane that I’m going to have to use asterisks to say that although they were brave and admirable people (I used these words) it was a shame to see some m* on a list of w and I wondered who the w** who missed out were. IT’S A FACT 😡

(And I’m not doubting the achievements of RW and VW but they seemed slightly out of place on the same list as the other 95.)

How to say that some of the people on the 100 women’s list are the wrong sex while still being an MNHQ approved ‘nice lady’

Tricky innit?

All 100 people on the list are very impressive people - people not women

@allmywhat

I question the inclusion of Rebel Wilson and Vera Wang but it looked like the other 95 women were very impressive humans indeed.

Don't know about Vera Wang, but I saw Rebel Wilson being interviewed today, and she was very impressive indeed.

@HelplesslyHoping

Ah another thread aimed to bash women who are more successful than the commenters. All 100 women deserve their place on the list, only men and misogynists seem to disagree

Even the word for hatred of women has been appropriated.

It's getting rather like that carry on film where they all keep on nicely eating dinner while the building collapses around them.

Well, I think it was a genuinely inspiring 97 Women List and I also enjoyed the article and additional analysis by James Kirkup, who is a man and therefore permitted to have opinions, which I think I am permitted to agree with.

(Although I have to wonder why only 97?? Traditionally the BBC does a 98 Women List.)

@highame

WTAF - ageism and sexism in one comment and proud of it. In fact I just had a second old lady moment, having to get my specs to read your comment. Eyes getting tired just before brandy time.

All through the thread I'm going to continue to have old lady moments

I have old lady moments every day… because I’m an old lady.

I think this is the fourth thread on this topic today.

Mumsnet allow us to say that we don't believe it's possible to change sex.

They allow us to say that transwomen are men. (I think they do anyway)

But we are only allowed to say these things about hypothetical men or criminals.

We are not allowed to follow through on our beliefs and say it about specific people.

I think that's why the threads keep getting deleted because we can't discuss the fact that a list of women includes men AND keep it hypothetical.

The problem is that real life isn't hypothetical and 3 women who deserve to be on that list were missed off.

This year 97. Next year 92 maybe? In a few years time maybe less than half?

“Gender is contentious”. Is it though? Anyone can feel feminine to varying degrees can’t they? The feminine ~ masculine dichotomy is a continuum surely. All fine. Femininity and masculinity are cultural stereotypes.

Is the BBC list a list of people who feel feminine? Seems pretty regressive? Regardless, they seem to have accidentally used the wrong label for this group of people.