BBC 100 Women List - Gender is contentious

[highame]

I'm sure there was a thread but I can't find anywhere. Did it get deleted. Anyway, here's a good article by James Kirkup

www.spectator.co.uk/article/gender-is-contentious-the-bbc-is-pretending-it-isn-t

This is yet another fine article from James Kirkup
The continuation of this argument is that including transwomen in the category of women is harmful to natal women and against the interests of natal women. These harms can take many forms. In law and policy, the 'transwomen are women' approach can mean the erosion or removal of boundaries around single-sex spaces. In culture and society, 'transwomen are women' diverts attention from — and potentially devalues — the unique experiences that natal women have based on their female biology and socialisation.

And when finite resources are allocated, 'transwomen are women' means that some things that might otherwise have been allocated to natal women are given to people who were born male. It is a simple statement of fact that because the BBC awarded some places on its 100 Women list to transwomen, those places — and the status and acclaim they bring — cannot be given to natal women.

He has a fine way with words

I really wish they'd publish the longer list of women they'd considered for the top 100. That way we can see who might have been included had the BBC respected them enough.
to the women who didn't make it. We don't know who you are but we know you deserve recognition.

In ten years time when nobody who doesn't have a penis has won the X award will they be willing to reinstate the female category or will they insist that if women were good enough they would win the X award and of course there is no misogyny because only six of ten winners with a penis call themselves men?

Well , in 2018 I was told by a Lib Dem MEP candidate that a shortlist of 5 men and 5 transwomen was gender balanced.

in 2018 I was told by a Lib Dem MEP candidate that a shortlist of 5 men and 5 transwomen was gender balanced 😲

and we're still up and running bumpety bump

All the grown ups seem to have left the Lib Dems.

Bullshit BBC.

I would rather they just got rid of these lists altogether than gas-light us (with my own money too!)

I've always been really proud of the BBC and appreciated the soft diplomatic impact it has globally.

Im now hoping it will go to a Netflix model - I listen to the radio & podcasts, but never watch the TV programming anymore.

I think that is a great article. I especially like this sentence, it's simple but powerful.

Even if we all accept that twaw, i would like to know how two people from such a tiny minority could manage to take two places on a top 100 list, when there are nearly 4 billion cis (sorry) females in the world.

I'm wondering if Mumsnet is up for sale, to be honest. There seems to be a lot more moderation on this topic recently which would be the case if the buyer was in a jurisdiction such as the US which has been seemingly captured.

The problem is and has always been though - FWR (this bit and these discussions) generate a LOT of traffic. Traffic equals revenue. Many women on MN have openly shared - came for x but stayed for the feminism.

This particular board generates a lot of media presence and has raised MN's profile, and continues to make it politically influential - hence the frantic monitoring and all the rest of it. If it wasn't, no one would bother what happened in the naughty corner. You can argue about the good and the bad publicity, but in terms of revenue? Sometimes it gets a lot more blurred. And every time MN is mentioned in a newspaper article people come here to see the awful things that are apparently happening here - and as many members say, realise many things they weren't aware of and that's how they joined MN and the discussion.

If women's rights are saved in the UK from being enthusiastically hurled out with the bathwater, and the law commission's response to GIRES suggests that at last those in power are starting to see for themselves and address the very issues and see through to the more balanced views that we've spent years pointing out and raising with them, MN will have played one of the first, longest and biggest parts in this. It will be historically relevant. And all of that generates revenue and value too.

A buyer will not be unaware of all this.

I think the additional "monitoring" probably stems from the Harrop court appearance and people coming over to check what was being said here, and spilling over to other threads.

I am noticing that other sites like Quora are attracting more reasoned GC posts and replies, and that comments in places like the DM or Times are more likely to be open. I think that ordinary people are waking up to the issues, and more willing to ignore the "phobic" chants.

I like James, but it seems to me he's being pointlessly even-handed:

"Are transwomen women? Some people say yes. Some people say no."

It's a bit like saying:

"Is the earth flat? Some people say yes. Some people say no."

The truth is that trans women are men. Of course they bloody are. The whole debate is fucking idiotic.

@RoyalCorgi

I like James, but it seems to me he's being pointlessly even-handed:

"Are transwomen women? Some people say yes. Some people say no."

It's a bit like saying:

"Is the earth flat? Some people say yes. Some people say no."

The truth is that trans women are men. Of course they bloody are. The whole debate is fucking idiotic.

Well yes, I don't understand how anyone can speculate as to whether transwomen are women, unless they also give a definition of what the word woman means in that sentence.

Because if you're speculating as to whether or not they are women, then it obviously doesn't mean adult human female.

So what is it?

Also, natal woman is completely unnecessary. All women are natal women. There's no alternative.

Just women is fine.

@RoyalCorgi

I like James, but it seems to me he's being pointlessly even-handed:

"Are transwomen women? Some people say yes. Some people say no."

It's a bit like saying:

"Is the earth flat? Some people say yes. Some people say no."

The truth is that trans women are men. Of course they bloody are. The whole debate is fucking idiotic.

If I were him I'd do likewise; in my head if I were writing for the Spectator I'd assume at last some of my readership on every article is new to this (many men!) I've noticed he does a bit of a recap/précis in many of his opinion pieces, I think it makes them more likely to stand on their own perhaps?

@Runningupthecurtains

in 2018 I was told by a Lib Dem MEP candidate that a shortlist of 5 men and 5 transwomen was gender balanced 😲

Didn't someone from the Fawcett Society say something similar but more general re MPs?

I can't remember who.

But yes.

Would 50% male/50% TW in parliament be equal representation men women?
Yes.

Sal brinton. At a 50/50 representation event 🙄

Libdem she is

It’s a good article, thanks for sharing.

Even more intriguing that similar threads were taken down?! Seems a bit boggling.