DD declaring she is transgender

[SystemOverloaded]

To start, please can I ask you to be gentle. I'm not in a good place; this is not due in whole to this situation, but life has been hard and I've been struggling to carry on.
DD (now 16) told me she was a lesbian at 14. Obviously this was not remotely an issue, she was told it was completely normal and she could love whoever she wanted. About 6 months later she sent me a text message (which I could tell straight away was copied and pasted in part from the Internet) declaring she was non binary and wanted us to call her by another name and use she/they. Again, fine. We didn't make it a big deal, said its fine to be whoever you want to be and we would try and remember the name they wanted. I must admit DH does slip up with this but tries not to. In all honesty I think she wanted more of a "shocked" reaction and a scene. She is part of a computer gaming group online (since 14) who I have since learned are mostly non binary/trans and have a massive influence on her. She also goes to college and I would say 80% of the class are non binary or trans -I am not over exaggerating. I have this morning found a note to me and DH in her room saying she thinks she is a trans man. I just don't know where to go with this from here. In all honesty I genuinely don't think she is trans at all. Before I get jumped on this is NOT because I don't want a trans child at all. This is because I believe she is confused, easily led and unsure about her body and is desperate to fit in with a group and be accepted. She struggled at school to find a group of friends and was lonely a lot and she does tend to mould herself around people's identity/hobbies to fit in with them. Where do I go from here? I want to be supportive but I don't believe this is what she really feels. Please help, I'm so lost and terrified if I question anything with her I will lose her and she will hate me.
I suffer with depression and OCD and diagnosed severe anxiety, I run a business and have a son with SEN. Life is a uphill struggle at the moment even with a wonderful husband and kids and I don't know how much longer I can cope. It seems easier not to be here.

Do the are you trans quizzes
Read stinewall
Read transwomen articles

They may say it's nothing to do with stereotypes but the actions , questions and explanations are all stereotype

The reason I ask
Is that my dd and ds
Quite simply
Have not experienced this

One has come back with half colours for football tonight. My DD
The other has come back with an award for winning the school Christmas cake bake off. My DS

Just because it exist doesn't mean everyone feels the effect to the same extent. Girls with low self esteem who are bullied will ( on average ) feel if more than self confident individuals

The very fact that you obviously associate football with boys shows you know about it

@bordermidgebite

Just because it exist doesn't mean everyone feels the effect to the same extent. Girls with low self esteem who are bullied will ( on average ) feel if more than self confident individuals

The very fact that you obviously associate football with boys shows you know about it

I know that it historically was very much a male dominated school sport And baking a female sport

But in modern day - no, I do not recognise this as being the case at all and, much more importantly, neither does my DS nor DD

Good for you

But look more broadly in society and you will see it all around

Look at adverts
Look at the children coming out of high schools
Look at the testimonies of children experiencing gender problems

@Happy1982ish surely you aren't saying that because of your experience with your DD and Dd, that all the research and evidence of this is wrong??

Of course your children have been exposed to this. Not all children respond in the same way. Not all children are exposed to the same levels of stereotyped socialisation. Not all children have protective home environments that challenge and don't adopt the prevailing stereotypes. Etc etc.

But it is not just my children
It’s both their schools. Do hundreds of pupils in the same environment as them.

And my nieces and nephews.

We as parents don’t coerce and whatever they want to play / after school school activity - they can damn we’ll do.

We as parents don't either. But nearly all other parents at my children's school do.

There is little point trading anecdotes. There is plenty of research to show what happens (in general, on average, typically) regarding sexual stereotyped socialisation.

Lucky you

You live in a bubble

You don't see me denying what you see

Look at the distribution of males /females in different jobs , running industry , look at the pay of male and female footballers

It's got nothing to do with capability and everything to do with blinkered society

I hope you are talking to your children about this or your girl might get a hard shock should she end up at university

Deny stereotypes exist
Deny stereotypes are harmful
Pretend stereotypes are innate

My daughter is 11, very recently diagnosed autistic, and for the past 9 months or so has been telling her friends she's trans. She's used 4 different boys names with them so far, has told some she's lesbian, some that she's not, some that she's bi and non binary...all started with puberty. She still wants to wear earrings etc, does dress in a tomboyish way but not noticeably. It's like she's two different people with us and online. I can't trust her at all to have any contact with friends etc online.

It's exhausting. Haven't read the whole thread yet, mainly because I try to limit the amount of time I spend online thinking and reading about the trans issue, as I was getting really down about it all. It was all I thought about, all I read about. So I'm trying to give myself time when I don't think about it.

I second bayswater support, there's a WhatsApp group too. I've just tried to get as educated as I can about it, and I've just gone with the not mentioning it. I'm in an odd situation as she hasn't officially told me or her dad, it's just through her phone being monitored that I know. I've done the following:
Taken away her phone and any access to the internet that isn't supervised. School is the last place, but she knows they can track her searches so hopefully that's a deterrent.
Bought her lots of books about strong women, unusual characters, autistic characters.
Got her out, horse riding, camping, walks etc
Got her doing crafts, just hands on activities.
We watch stanger things together, I talk about what I did as a teen, clothes I wore etc.
Told a select couple of parents of close friends,, so she's not able to bully them into letting her use the internet.
We bake we chat, I basically just ignore it all and praise her loads for everything else.
I'm considering calling school to let them know I think she's vunerable to bullying because she's lying, trying to make herself stand out to fit in etc. I'm hoping there isn't a LGBT etc group in her school but there's a high chance there is...
Just trying to weather the storm and not think too much about it all so i can stay positive and keep hoping it'll all blow over.

Huge support coming your way. It's so hard. I've had nights just crying about my little girl being taken away from me by this. If I actually used the words I wanted to use to describe what I think of these people who are targeting our vunerable children I'd likely be banned. I hate them and wish the whole thing would go away.

As I have said upthread, I have witnessed the pressure being put on our children by their peers! And yes, football is associated by other girls as being for boys as is Dr Who and Star Wars.

This is the messaging that girls are getting and have been getting now for a number of years. It most certainly is happening.

Additionally, there is a Dr (I think she was a Doctor) trans activist who declared she knew her infant son was trans because he used to unsnap his baby gro to form a ‘skirt’. There is a video somewhere with her stating this very confidently. I think he also played with his hair or some rubbish.

Theghostofchristmasarse

Your daughter sounds like she is getting great support.

@Theghostofchristmasarse It sounds as though you're where I am, and I'm sorry for that, but confident it's the right approach.

Love to you and your DD X

“bordermidgebite

Good for you

But look more broadly in society and you will see it all around

Look at adverts
Look at the children coming out of high schools
Look at the testimonies of children experiencing gender problems“

What I have been noticing is that although there were always previously gender divided clothes, they are increasingly overtly designed to exaggerate genders and make even pre-school children look like mini adult stereotypes:

Combat colours of black, olive etc for boys, printed all over with dinosaurs or super hero’s - after age 2 very few based on all sorts of animals like rabbits, birds, bears. Little girls’ jackets with cinched in waists, bra- top vests, fancy boots, leggings.

I noticed an advertisement on the television pre 6 o’clock Jean-Paul Gautier homo-erotic sailor meets dominatrix.

As someone who's been involved in LGBT activism for 20 plus years I have never ever seen even the most vehement trans activist claim that liking cars and the colour blue makes you a boy. Not once, not even close. This is a GC myth. No, it's a GC lie.

No it isn't. It's often a factor in "how I knew my child/myself were trans" stories online. Though generally more the MTF direction I'll grant you.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

As someone who's been involved in LGBT activism for 20 plus years I have never ever seen even the most vehement trans activist claim that liking cars and the colour blue makes you a boy. Not once, not even close. This is a GC myth. No, it's a GC lie.

No it isn't. It's often a factor in "how I knew my child/myself were trans" stories online. Though generally more the MTF direction I'll grant you.

I don’t see how cheesecale’s comment squares with the ‘where do I fit on the gender spectrum’ picture, where there is a pink girl or Barbie doll for 100% female and blue boy or GI Joe for 100% male - the child then colours in the figure somewhere between the two, or the 100% figures.

What criteria is used to help the child decide where to place themselves on that ‘spectrum’? (which as a scientist, I don’t buy into and would love to see the basis for it).
How does the child otherwise judge where they fit, if not influenced by someone’s stereotypes? And different sources and people demonstrate differing stereotypes, although from a very young age girls and boys come to recognise that they are either a girl or a boy.

Would they not find the ‘choose where you are on the spectrum’ confusing? And would it not potentially lead them to feel either more like a boy or girl based on not particularly liking Barbie dolls or pink, or action figures?

When I was little I loved Action Man - particularly the diver and parachutist - train sets, scalextrix and Tonka Toys for excavating worms in the garden. I also liked Cindy dolls and skipping ropes. It worries me what impression I might have got of myself if I’d gone through that ‘spectrum’ exercise.

A more appropriate exercise would be to have girls and boys simply list what they like to do and how they like to play, then they would each get an appreciation that stereotypes don’t mean much.

And I think I’m talking about what’s happening now in schools - with LGBGT groups going into schools and providing ‘teaching resources’. It’s essential a suitable balance is sought between teaching acceptance, and influencing children into questioning there own justification for saying definitively that they’re either a girl or boy, because stereotypes are everywhere, and are quite damaging.

@Helleofabore

As I have said upthread, I have witnessed the pressure being put on our children by their peers! And yes, football is associated by other girls as being for boys as is Dr Who and Star Wars.

This is the messaging that girls are getting and have been getting now for a number of years. It most certainly is happening.

Additionally, there is a Dr (I think she was a Doctor) trans activist who declared she knew her infant son was trans because he used to unsnap his baby gro to form a ‘skirt’. There is a video somewhere with her stating this very confidently. I think he also played with his hair or some rubbish.

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=kFyCwT6BeYw&feature=emb_logo

Diane Ehrensaft - Developmental/Clinical Psychologist

Girl tears hairclips out of her hair. Is therefore 'trans'.

Girl tears hairclips out of her hair. Is therefore 'trans'.

There it is. Thank you Arabella!.

I remember this particularly because my child did this as well as tearing opening the studs on a babygro. And I was horrified that this Psychologist would use this as any indication that there was some kind of gender dysphoria in an infant.

No.... it could an indication that a child hated anything in their hair or constricting on their bodies. A sensitivity that has lasted into young adulthood.

I look forward to someone coming back and telling us that this is a standalone incident and that this person has no influence. That is the predictable route.

YES! Some organisations and some clinicians even have been stating for a long time, long enough to have filtered into the minds of children, that stereotypes can be a strong indication of being trans. To deny it is an indication that your research has not been quite as balanced as you believe.

Additionally, there is a Dr (I think she was a Doctor) trans activist who declared she knew her infant son was trans because he used to unsnap his baby gro to form a ‘skirt’. There is a video somewhere with her stating this very confidently. I think he also played with his hair or some rubbish.

Absolutely crackers. There are many cultures past and present where some form of skirt or dress type garment is the normal wear for anyone not riding a horse.

@BlueberryCheezecake

As someone who's been involved in LGBT activism for 20 plus years I have never ever seen even the most vehement trans activist claim that liking cars and the colour blue makes you a boy. Not once, not even close. This is a GC myth. No, it's a GC lie.

There was once a little boy who used to play with dolls. This made his dad very angry so the mother got him drugs to stop his penis growing. The video of his mother and grandmother laughing about this size of his penis is available on you tube if you care to look. He was taken to another country on his 16th birthday to have his penis turned into a vagina. That country has now banned this.

GC myth my arse. It's the backbone of TRA ideology.

Oh yes, Shedmistress

And that mother is a major part of a children's charity that produces the slide ware we have seen. AND produces material for children's education in schools.

It must be very hard to accept that your 'GC myth' has so many publicly available and influential people actually recorded feeding said myth. Almost like some activists cannot accept that feminists too have been working away at supporting women's rights for decades and have done the analysis.

(Not me, I was blissfully aware until a few years ago and in an attempt to understand just how this has come to pass have read widely from many differing opinions. I thank those feminists who have been working for decades though because I have an even greater appreciation of them now!)

That baby grow and hair clip story from that ‘expert’ beggars belief.

Any child could want hair clips out, or want to un-pop a baby grow for the fun sound, or to get air on their feet and legs, or to get dangly tails.

Well, I expect Cheesecake will be along to tell us that this person is in no representative (despite it being a popular and well known talk) and that this person is :

Diane Ehrensaft, Ph.D. is a developmental and clinical psychologist in the San Francisco Bay Area and the Director of Mental Health and founding member of the Child and Adolescent Gender Center, a partnership between the University of California San Francisco and community agencies to provide comprehensive interdisciplinary services and advocacy to gender nonconforming/ transgender children and youth and their families. She is an associate professor of pediatrics at the University of California San Francisco and the chief psychological at the UCSF Benioff Children’s Hospital Child and Adolescent Gender Center Clinic

And that Green has NO influence in Mermaids at all...

I am sure we can scrounge up more examples.

Or maybe we should just post some of the mind blowing quotes from prominent transitioned males that are fully based in stereotypes?

Do you want us to continue to post more evidence to support what you call a 'GC Myth' there, Blueberry or not?

And while we are at it, can you then explain EXACTLY how someone trans understands completely just what the other sex feels so that they can define themselves as the other sex, and NOT just their own representation of what they believe that being the other sex means? And I would like to, for once, see some peer reviewed papers on this. Because if you can explain to us how that works, then I think you might be up for a noble prize for one of the sciences.

So.... I will wait. EXACTLY what does this 'innate feeling' of being the opposite sex which a person can have absolutely no actual understanding except superficially mean.

Are we still waiting for @BlueberryCheezecake to respond to the various debunking of their "GC Myth" claim? I am surprised...

I anyone needs me, I've just gone for some wood to top up Arabella's brazier while we wait for a response. If anyone can fill a flask of soup, we'd be most grateful.