DD declaring she is transgender

[SystemOverloaded]

To start, please can I ask you to be gentle. I'm not in a good place; this is not due in whole to this situation, but life has been hard and I've been struggling to carry on.
DD (now 16) told me she was a lesbian at 14. Obviously this was not remotely an issue, she was told it was completely normal and she could love whoever she wanted. About 6 months later she sent me a text message (which I could tell straight away was copied and pasted in part from the Internet) declaring she was non binary and wanted us to call her by another name and use she/they. Again, fine. We didn't make it a big deal, said its fine to be whoever you want to be and we would try and remember the name they wanted. I must admit DH does slip up with this but tries not to. In all honesty I think she wanted more of a "shocked" reaction and a scene. She is part of a computer gaming group online (since 14) who I have since learned are mostly non binary/trans and have a massive influence on her. She also goes to college and I would say 80% of the class are non binary or trans -I am not over exaggerating. I have this morning found a note to me and DH in her room saying she thinks she is a trans man. I just don't know where to go with this from here. In all honesty I genuinely don't think she is trans at all. Before I get jumped on this is NOT because I don't want a trans child at all. This is because I believe she is confused, easily led and unsure about her body and is desperate to fit in with a group and be accepted. She struggled at school to find a group of friends and was lonely a lot and she does tend to mould herself around people's identity/hobbies to fit in with them. Where do I go from here? I want to be supportive but I don't believe this is what she really feels. Please help, I'm so lost and terrified if I question anything with her I will lose her and she will hate me.
I suffer with depression and OCD and diagnosed severe anxiety, I run a business and have a son with SEN. Life is a uphill struggle at the moment even with a wonderful husband and kids and I don't know how much longer I can cope. It seems easier not to be here.

What, you think if you like blue, or cars, or engineering etc, it makes you male or something?!

That's what many trans activists seem to think?

I'm not on about trans activists though. Maybe some do think like that.
I was referring to a pp on here who is presumably '' GC'', if so it's clear some GC think the same so not much different in that respect if so

Why do you think this young woman is identifying as a "trans man"? What do you think is leading her to this conclusion?

How would I know?
Also, how would you?
Do you know them? I'm presuming not. So how would you even know?
Pure projection, speculation whatever side you're coming from.
I just know what it's like for me.
Presumably others do too.
at people with no idea what it's like pretending or assuming they do know.

I just know what it's like for me.

What what is like for you?

Read Abigail Shrier’s Irreversable Damage. It includes many stories from parents of young natal women who have participated in the trans journey. Taking opposite sex hormones that can permanently damage fertility or undertaking surgery to remove healthy bits is not wise. Find her a new hobby or interest, such as Rangers, Explorers, Duke of Edinburgh, sewing, or volunteering. This will pass if you don’t make a big deal about it. It’s good to distrust anything wherein adults tell young people their parents don’t understand them.

Well if you are not trans perhaps the words of sone one who did identity as a boy during her teenage years ( David ), who did really hate her female body , who was bullied for not being a proper girl might be more relevant than yours ?

many transitioners have also told us that the pressure to maintain their identity, to not discuss any issues they have within the group, be it health or ideological concerns because will (or fear) be rejected from their groups. After the group has supported them (or sometimes pressured them) to also reject their families.
Isolation from family and 'othering' of anyone not in the in group is cause for concern. #1 priority is always to keep comms open. Using the threat of shunning is a red flag, and especially for young people forming their identity and finding a tribe.

As a parent you can help - I know it's hard and there are other influences but if you can try

think about your own behaviour
Try not to do or say anything that reinforces stereotypes , especially ones she might be sensitive to

So don't say " oh she's good at maths girlie giggle" , but " I'm so proud of her she's good at maths " or " Warwick university is good for maths , shall we drive past one day "

Stereotypes do matter because humans learn through them , indeed our creativity can come from them ( if x is like y what happens if I do this on y instead of x )

What, you think if you like blue, or cars, or engineering etc, it makes you male or something?!

Maybe no siree had forgotten that this teen is probably one of the generation that may have been taught using EXACTLY this? Or is that an inconvenient truth?

There was a period of time (that would fit this age group) where their lessons revolves around just that kind of thinking. In fact, wasn’t there a slide that said just that.

In fact, it is not even necessary for it to have been part of a formal lesson. My teen was horrified to arrive in the UK at 10 years old and be told they must be the opposite sex because of their interests. Interests that were very normal in the country they had been living previously. So, it also is coming from their peers!!

@NoNotMeNoSiree It looks to me like a bit of crossed wires between posters, possibly?

For me, opening up a conversation as to in what ways/how a young person feels trans would be a useful exploration.

Gender ideology does seem to be prescriptive regarding gender stereotypes and what is thought usual or normal behaviour and interests for each sex - which is possibly influencing young people into rejecting the 'gender stereotyping' for their sex, and leading them to think they relate to or have more in common with the opposite sex.
A conversation would hopefully get into why the young person is rejecting their own sexed body, which of course is likely to be a great deal more complex than perception of stereotypes, but it does seem to be an underlying theme.

I don't think the person who suggested the conversation buys into the steretyping, but suggested it as a useful subject to explore?

I try to ignore stereotyping that may come from society/media generally, but yes that's pretty toxic and contradictory.

This generation is brought up with horrible sex stereotypes. I have been to “pamper birthday parties” for little girls aged 5/6. Boy’s birthday parties tend to be more focused on football or similar. And this is before we even start with clothes, toys and other things.

I think this plays a part in making girls confused if they don’t fit the mould. The combination of the enforced sex stereotypes and transgender encouragement and affirmation is toxic.

@Doubletoilandtrouble

This generation is brought up with horrible sex stereotypes. I have been to “pamper birthday parties” for little girls aged 5/6. Boy’s birthday parties tend to be more focused on football or similar. And this is before we even start with clothes, toys and other things.

I think this plays a part in making girls confused if they don’t fit the mould. The combination of the enforced sex stereotypes and transgender encouragement and affirmation is toxic.

I hadn’t realised it had become so bad.

My girls had puppet shows and magic trick parties, and tree-climbing, and martial arts, and ballet, and decent beach shorts from the ‘boys’ dept in M&S. and technical lego..............................

I could weep. Well, I have and I do.

DoubleTween, we really try but it feels toxic. I do like the football parties as it is convenient to have children running around at a field but the girls’ parties can be grim. Luckily youngest DD has a few close friends who like to run around and play spies and ninjas but most of the little girls are very pink, pampered and proper. I feel beyond sorry for the children.

@Doubletoilandtrouble I did see a bit of this at primary school, and it came from the parents.
Also teasing the young boys and girls about romantic attraction - ooh, is that your ‘boyfriend’? - at 4/5. Totally grim. My two have always had friends who were girls & boys, depending on who they gravitated to. And it was more to do with their interests and character.

I encourage my older DD to have a lovely wide group of friends - including boys - before she starts thinking about romantic ties. I was pretty shocked when the ‘going out with’ and ‘dumped’ terminology came into school groups when they were so young (although my girls just watched in bemusement and supported their friends).

We are adulting our children way too early. Time to stop and respect the normal stages of childhood and adolescence, and give them space to truly breathe.

When you have groups of girls telling other girls that if they like Doctor Who and play football that they must be boys, you have to realise that there is very much something amiss in this generation of kids.

And it is freedom to be who they are without having labels attached to them, without having to declare themselves to be something that they have actually little concept of because adults cannot even explain it. That adds to the confusion and creates 'mystery' around having 'essences'.

No! Kids are kids and they can bloody well like whatever they like and just get on with being kids. No labels! In this era that is supposedly so wonderfully 'free to be', it is actually the very opposite. It is 'free to be as long as you stick a label on it'.

@Helleofabore Yes, it's all extremely oppressive. Humans are generally so much more complex and multifaceted.
The current 'ideologies' are an idea, but I've seen no scientific evidence for them, yet they are unquestioningly accepted and promoted - everywhere.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

What, you think if you like blue, or cars, or engineering etc, it makes you male or something?!

That's what many trans activists seem to think?

As someone who's been involved in LGBT activism for 20 plus years I have never ever seen even the most vehement trans activist claim that liking cars and the colour blue makes you a boy. Not once, not even close. This is a GC myth. No, it's a GC lie.

@Doubletoilandtrouble

DoubleTween, we really try but it feels toxic. I do like the football parties as it is convenient to have children running around at a field but the girls’ parties can be grim. Luckily youngest DD has a few close friends who like to run around and play spies and ninjas but most of the little girls are very pink, pampered and proper. I feel beyond sorry for the children.

What makes playing ninjas superior to wanting to play inside wearing pink?

Neither is “grim”
Neither is superior to the other

It is grim when you know that girls are being coerced down a pathway that is different to that for boys, a pathway which has priorities that if followed lead to fewer life choices for those girls , leads to them being seen as superficial etc

@BlueberryCheezecake you've never seen Mermaids training material showing a sliding scale between Barbie in a pink princess dress to GI Joe in camo at the other end? Representing gender identity, which is what gender ideology claims being a "boy" or "girl" means, rather than being about biological sex.

@bordermidgebite

It is grim when you know that girls are being coerced down a pathway that is different to that for boys, a pathway which has priorities that if followed lead to fewer life choices for those girls , leads to them being seen as superficial etc

Who is coercing them?

If you don't know how girls are directed down a specific route through the messages society gives them , what value can you bring to the feminist & gender board ?

From the very first time someone says " oh what a pretty girl/strong boy" children are being educated

And it's not innate. There was an experiment with childcare professionals who had to write appraisals of children

It was quite amazing , how the girls were described as caring , the boys as boisterous, the girls wanted to play with dolls, the boys wanted rough and tumble

It was amazing because the children had been cross dressed . Those boisterous boys were little girls given the freedom to bounce. The caring girls were little boys being encouraged for the first time to play with dolls

As someone who's been involved in LGBT activism for 20 plus years I have never ever seen even the most vehement trans activist claim that liking cars and the colour blue makes you a boy. Not once, not even close. This is a GC myth. No, it's a GC lie.

So what is 'presenting/passing as a woman' then?

All the stereotypes, general look of, external appearance and a further stereotyping of mannerisms, voice, etc.

For any transwomen 'being' a woman depends entirely on an interpretation based on mimicking external perceptions. Just as being a transman does.

Short cuts would and do include hyperfeminism/masculinisim; colour coding; choice of leisure pursuits, hobbies etc.

And I'll take your 20 years and raise you (wait, I am 56 now so.... ) 36 years and counting of supporting trans frineds through their life changes, surgeries, wedding etc.

And yes, take your ire to Mermaids and their bloody stupid G I Joe / Barbie continuum! If they aren't transactivists and that isn't claiming that liking blue/pink makes you a boy or a girl then no bear has ever shat in a wood and the Pope is a Trappist monk!