Omnisexual 11 year old

[Perplexedmother]

DS was talking about his new friend today who is omnisexual. I had to look it up to understand it properly and when I did I saw just how many different labels (and flags!) there are. What's with the label obsession!! I'm genuinely intrigued about what's going on with young people that drives the need for labels. I know it's always been a thing to find your tribe/identity as a young person. Is that what this is?

I know this should probably be in parenting but I've already spent the day feeling like a lectured dinosaur, it's safer here!

Whatever anyone's views on gender identity, and all the labels.

The fact is for those who use them, the sexuality labels ARE about sexuality to them.

If anyone says agender pansexual for eg. That some people say drivel. Does not change the fact that the second is a label for sexuality.

Not personally believing that those labels are to do with sexuality does not mean those who use them aren't thinking about sexuality, sexual orientation.

It makes it seem more palatable with this 11yo. But it's clear it's about sexuality. Even though at 11 that's not going to be anything past fancying, or maybe just a popular one they picked or thought sounded cool or something.

@Akela64

Omni/pan are not sexualities - they're gender labels.

We know that co-mobidity for mental health issues for children who take on gender labels is very high. The support for children's mental health is dire and these labels are a further barrier because of cries of "phobia". This thread being an excellent example of such.

Again this is a total exaggeration.

Since last year primary, a fair few children, and these are just the ones who knew DD well enough for her to know.

MH issues in the wide cohort it's hard because of the trans allies etc insistence that data on NHS is collected in a way that makes it hard to do broad analysis (which is nonsensical if they want to help trans people).

The studies/info I've seen are either-

Online surveys with no validation that respondents are who they say they are.

Surveys carried out by trans orgs. From what I've seen poor methodology and as we know they are looking for certain results. And can target specific cohort to ask.

Ones from gender clinics must have done some. If child attending gender clinic that indicates usually a certain level of discomfort/ distress (stemming from any number of issues- past experiences, MH autism etc but it's phobic to say that apparently).

From what I know year 10 DD school would mean maybe 1/3 students have various gender id/ sexuality labels. (It's a girl's school).

I know I keep pressing point that some posts are massive worst case scenario/ even scaremongering.

But unless a decent recent study in UK across large cohort of children not just ones who are making bigger changes/ seen doc/ changed gender (sex fgs not gender in school data!) etc at school with family etc etc.

Then I'm not going to buy that saying I'm genderglux ace to your friends who all have basic labels. Is a sign of anything apart from showing member of certain tribe.

For me the things that really concern me with children are-

• The way all this comes from adults. Totally different to previous youth tribes- music made by people usually generally younger about their feelings etc. People have always had concerns about genres etc metal, goth influencing children. This is totally different. It's adults pushing it at children. Who have the support of governments, company sponsorship etc.

And it's not a youth thing at all. It's being taught in schools. And getting that changed is so hard. It's not a genuine youth culture thing at all it's been deliberately pushed on them.

• The fact that vulnerable children are very susceptible to it. Offers chance to be someone else. Touted as cure for autism, alleviates MH issues. Orgs work to suppress, paint as lies, refute anything that says hold on a sec. In fact they want it to be illegal to make it illegal to do anything to find out whether trans identity is for any child a reaction to something else. That just not even be suggested. Even thinking it might be a good idea is apparently bigotry.

Whole thing needs to be tackled that means tackling the adults, orgs, govt depts etc who think brilliant.

A perfectly happy child who says mum I'm a greysexual Demi boys? That's nice dear what do you want for tea? Meaningless.

If there are other issues - unhappy, secretive, binding, MH, not knowing what doing on internet etc. That's the time to get concerned imo.

Should OP be concerned about her boys friend saying that? If otherwise he's cheerful etc. Then no I would say oh? And keep half an eye on him check he ok.

This thread has really helped me,, thank you so much,, I've begun to get really down and anxious about DD, 11, recently diagnosed ASD,, who since about a year ago has been:
Bisexual
Lesbian
Non binary
A trans boy called Xyler who liked girls
A trans boy called Kayden who liked boys
A trans boy called Leo who likes everyone

I think she even searched catgender at some point.

It's all to her friends, with me she still goes oooh when she sees a pair of nice earrings or a sparkly thing,, she's got no interest in anything stereo typically boyish, she dresses like I did at her age, like an emo/grunge girl...it's just bizarre. But it's a way to fit in. It's almost more acceptable to be trans than it is to be ND I guess. She's got no interest in hearing about autism or how her brain works. She'd rather make her friends think she's really a boy. It's bizarre.
I mean the names are getting better, that's a start. But at times I get so overwhelmed by the feeling that she's going to start binding or trying to socially transition at school or some shit that isn't reversible when she finally grows up and realises she's just a preteen autistic girl who may or may not fancy girls..
But laughing at it all does help. Along with banning the internet forever of course.

Do her friends have labels? IME it comes in friendship groups. Just if so that further confirms it's a tribe thing.

DD friends change their names (only within their friend group), labels fairly frequently, as your DD has.

DD incidentally from maybe 9-12 insisted on only clothes from boy section, wanted her hair cut (I let her go short not what she wanted short back and sides. Partly due to age/her hair type/ adults ott reaction I know from when I did it say 13).
She wore trousers to school and shoes from boy section and was really down on 'girls' things.

It's s pretty common stage for girls although most don't go that far. She's 14 now and wears whatever she fancies from whatever section. Sometimes jewellery. Sometimes jewellery ment for men. She never believed you could actually change sex etc.

I'd just go along with it while just clothes hair etc, keep an eye, obv monitor internet (banning maybe a bit far at her age? Up to you obv) and I'd bet you s tenner it dies down in couple years.

'Sometimes jewellery. Sometimes jewellery ment for men'

FFS however hard I try the sex role norms just pop in sometimes. Sorry!

@CheeseMmmm I'd take that bet in the hopes I'd lose it! I'd pay a £1000 now if it would make it all go away.

We took away her phone and have stopped use of tiktok, discord, WhatsApp etc, as she was getting into some horrible conversations online and was finding it all there. Gradually re introducing it but I know she can search what she likes at school.
She's not gone as far as dressing entirely like a boy, I offered her to get a short haircut, she declined! Chose to wear a skirt for school, chooses to wear bras, even though I offered her a sports bra.. I also asked her if she wanted her ears pierced, she did.. I'm hoping she will just find herself eventually and that the calling herself anther name etc wont come back to bite her. My worry is with all these kids is that it's quite difficult to back down when you've said these things. She's incredibly stubborn too.

It's definitely akin to grooming, or a cult. If it were anything else we could call it out and people would be up in arms, but this seems untouchable. It's scary if I'm honest, she's very vunerable.

Bloody hell. Yes, I started my periods at just turned 11 and absolutely did have sexual feelings atvthe time but this was over 40 years ago so I didn't immediately turn to the Internet and conclude that my sexuality was blah blah blah and that should be used to define all my interactions from here to Kingdom come.

And like pp's dd I was a bit mixed up but unlike pp's dd I drew my own conclusions. I was tomboy but I'm definitely female. Just with a mathsy/science brain and also bisexual, after many years of contemplation (rather than an overnight social media push)

Chin up.

You're her mum and obviously it's really worrying given that further along, binders drugs etc is so awful.

Chin up though!

I only know about DD, and then the stuff online which is mostly really worrying. In the end at the moment-

She didn't want hair cut that's v common to really want

She declined sports bra and no problem normal bra. That's good as bra message everywhere essentially bra > breasts > male gaze and girls have been uncomfy about developing breasts for at least decades.
(DD I found was wearing two on top of each other naturally I worried about binding. Had a chat. Said two not good as would be too hot and might well irritate skin. Said sports bra? Went to look. She didn't want. Only one bralet since and zero sign she bothered).

• Rejection female coded stuff (Feminine things rejected only with friends not all the time).

• She has changed labels multiple times so it's not like this one is set in stone. IME they tend to change them when they feel like another matches how they feel etc better or just fancy s change who knows they're kids.

I also think going with it as you have is the best approach while it's trivial. Nothing like getting reaction (negative but also positive) for encouraging children to keep doing something.

Good luck :)

Thank you. The last year or so has been a total fucker.
I just keep saying 'that's nice dear' and telling her how much I love her regardless, plus how much she dresses like I did at her age 😂 nothing like making her "cool" gender fluidity absolutely uncool by her mum also being like her back in the day for curing her of it I reckon 😂

Btw this bit

'Rejection female coded stuff only with friends not all the time.'

This factor makes me really pissed off. I disliked frills, fancy skirts, fussy tops with tiny buttons, fussing about with hair, jewellery etc from young. Just how I was. Personality. To have this current situation make me PLEASED when DD started wearing dresses, necklaces sometimes. As indicated boy ID and all that can come with it was fading. Made me so angry. All my life I have fought against enforced gender/ sex role. And because of this I WANTED DD to express some conformity. Just shit.

The whole thing is misogynist, regressive, homophobic. Fact is it's so about males wanting something from women/girls. It's male gaze though and through. Seeing women/girls as nothing more than a 2D bunch of stereotypes.

Telling us what we like, who we are. Projecting various male beliefs about women, girls, sex onto us. The unsurprising fixation on breasts. Saying it's us that don't know what we're talking about when we say, that's not what we're like at all.

Reversing so much progress in freeing people up to look, feel and be who they are. The slow progress we have fought for (that benefits men too).

Total shitshow I'm so angry and have been for years.

You're doing great.

I know the worry is about what this COULD lead to.

It's so hard but try to remember that she is showing no interest in binders, doc etc. At the moment she's fine. Labels that change, a few different names. You're acting re internet. You're not going on about it. You're offering her things associated with both sexes. Showing you love her and you know hair doesn't matter. And she's choosing female coded stuff.

You sound like a lovely mum :)

Good luck I am genuinely sure it will be fine x

Just realised you mentioned partner- make sure you are doing same approach iyswim.