Omnisexual 11 year old

[Perplexedmother]

DS was talking about his new friend today who is omnisexual. I had to look it up to understand it properly and when I did I saw just how many different labels (and flags!) there are. What's with the label obsession!! I'm genuinely intrigued about what's going on with young people that drives the need for labels. I know it's always been a thing to find your tribe/identity as a young person. Is that what this is?

I know this should probably be in parenting but I've already spent the day feeling like a lectured dinosaur, it's safer here!

I dislike this new trend. Like the poster who won't wear/buy anything that doesn't have the rainbow on, it seems obsessive. As we get older we realise no one even cares.

@CheeseMmmm - not in uk. Am focused on my DDs, of course. The bullies are primarily two girls (not sibs) in DD2’s year and their two weaker wannabes/pawns.
In DD1’s year, there is a group of about six girls. Their social structure is entirely different. None of them identify as straight, and they are all very competitive Type A kids. They compete largely against each other and unlike DD2’s group, where the dialogue is entirely controlled by the bullies and is entirely centred on sexuality, the dialogue here is on grades. Most of these girls are doing STEM subjects and my DD1 is doing languages and English Extension. (Final yr High School.) She recently received four academic achievement awards and I think that this may have had something to do with her being “iced”…. They have used her unwillingness to “out” herself as an excuse however, and have chosen to do so for her instead. This is an act I consider to be very dangerous as she is vulnerable atm. She has just started counselling to try and come to terms with her ASD diagnosis and her sexuality in her own time/way, etc. The have form for this, having done so with two others who were even more vulnerable than my DD, and with less supportive/safe families. (One is currently hospitalized with an eating disorder, so I am not a fan of this group. Am very relieved my kid has moved on and is hanging out with other girls and actually laughing for the first time in months, tbh.)
School is entirely aware of these dynamics and has been gently splitting these groups up whenever and wherever possible, offering counselling, healthier diversions, etc… Honestly, the time and energy they are putting in to creating a healthier headspace is amazing. (Especially compared to other schools, where this goes on too.) They’re also checking in with me daily in a private way, checking on DD’s in ways they may not even know about, ensuring that they are safe and they don’t start to withdraw back into their shells.
I couldn’t be a teacher or work in a school with what is expected of them in this day and age. I haven’t been “that” parent. I think I have fairly reasonable expectations of teachers and of my kids. I am thoroughly impressed and really surprised at what’s been going on here from a school level. I know that when my son encountered a girl in potential danger (not at my daughter’s school) and the only way we could help her was to go via a teacher at his school and his headmaster, it was escalated very quickly too. (They were really great about ensuring he understood the need to protect her privacy, etc.. too.) Police and social services were called that day, and my son was counseled in a way that left him in no question that he had done the right thing and that he was relieved and could let go of the situation for experts to sensitively handle it. (Both by school and social services). They’re still friends.
I think maybe systems and processes are different here where I live in Aus.

"setting the curtains on fire with joss sticks."

I think children define feelings as sexual much younger now. I remember going to see a play when I was a child and thinking I was "in love" with the main actor. I certainly wouldn't have defined that as sex.

@CheeseMmmm Saying it's too young to think about sexuality is homophobic.. Sorry that's the bottom line.

Maybe if you'd actually read people's posts instead of spamming the thread with long posts filled with song lyrics you'd stop being so obtuse. The problem is that children are being socially groomed to think that being inclusive in their sexuality is a good, kind thing to be. That's not even remotely similar to a child being aware of their sexuality at a young age.

Your own sexuality is a private thing and being heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual (the only three sexualities) doesn't make you a better or worse person. It doesn't make you kinder to be open to having sex with everyone. It doesn't make you boring to be straight. It doesn't make you bigoted to be a lesbian or a bisexual. But that's what children are growing up with now, especially girls. Girls who are exclusively same sex attracted are considered to be TERFs for not including transgirls in their sexuality. Girls who consider themselves to be bisexual are bigots for only recognising two sexes. Even if they are attracted to a transgirl, it's not ok if any of that attraction comes from the fact that they are also attracted to male bodies. But girls who rise above all that and are willing to declare themselves attracted to every kind of person are the gold star. Good, kind girls who will accept and include everyone in their sexuality. It's not even remotely homophobic to want to protect children from the idea that their sexuality is anything other than deeply personal. That they will never, ever owe anyone access to their bodies. That they should never be pressured into accepting anyone they aren't actually attracted to.

On the other hand it's 100% homophobic to try and convince children that being exclusively same sex attracted is unkind. That their sexuality not including transwomen or transmen is a bad thing. That they are hung up on 'genital preference' and should get over it.

And lastly, while it's not unusual for an 11 year old to be aware of their heterosexuality or their homosexuality. It actually isn't particularly usual for an 11 year old to be totally aware of their bisexuality at that age because being fully aware of an ability to be sexually attracted to people of both sexes usually takes longer and involves a greater degree of sexual maturity. In fact, it's not unusual for people to be in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, or older before becoming aware that they are bisexual. While, conversely, it's been increasingly common since the mid-90s for young women to feel they should give bisexuality a try before they can know they definitely aren't attracted to women. But the difference now is that we are telling this to children now instead of young women.

'Your own sexuality is a private thing'.

No it is NOT. this is a fight lgb people are STILL battling.

I hold DH hand in public without a second thought. I give him a peck on the cheek or lips. I talk about him at work. If I were young again, I could snog him on the street on the way back from night out.

Lgb people STILL in most areas of the country cannot do these things without risking stares, uncomfortable atmosphere, comments either nasty or patronising. Sometimes violence.

This is a FACT. That comment is the essence of homophobia. I don't mind gays but don't flaunt it, keep it in private, I don't want it in my face etc have been pointed at for years as correctly indicating there's still an issue.

Many pps are

Seeing the past with rose tinted glasses.

Simultaneously

• ignoring the fact that pubescent children, 11,12,13 etc are naive, very innocent. Want to be more grown up but things they say, do, wear have never meant they actually fully get it. They never have (unless something bad in life which is different situation). Everyone was that age once. And apparently never pretended to know what others were talking about. And as a grown up realised so much had gone over head in songs books etc.

• ignoring the fact that boys and girls when starting to date or in less pleasant circs. And for at least decades. Experience constant messages from society presenting sex really positively. And children esp girls being pushed coerced etc to perform various sex acts with boys. With online porn exposure to really extreme misogynist content starts often very young. Normalising, sexualising. What het sex is learnt to be involves things like anal, spitting, even choking. For the girl to cry is seen as normal, no expectation she will enjoy sex. Constant early sexualisation is a massive and very big problem.

Yet that also seems to be out of the picture when it comes to children sex and sexuality.

And ignoring that sexuality and sex have been all over society for at least decades, going over the heads of children into much older. Preferring to ignore examples and accuse me of pointless spamming.

It's not right to ignore the facts, history, reality. In order to post OTT comments that ignore everything that says look. For the vast majority of children this will not have results as dire as insisted on this thread.

'It actually isn't particularly usual for an 11 year old to be totally aware of their bisexuality at that age'.

I agree with your reason for saying this. Is the statement it's not particularly usual relevant? I know bi people who were aware from young. Some ignored the same sex attraction generally as easier to seem het. Some did not and went with it.

And so what? What's your point? Unusual is not the same as never. And what relevance does it have when it's lg and b not just b.

I have no actual stats though assume you do.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with thinking about these things at 11, but I would worry about the labelling thing at that age. How do you change your mind once you’ve told everyone you’re omnisexual? (No issue with older teens or adults labelling themselves, but 11 year olds aren’t really at the point where they can work these things out)

The new terminology is very internet based, and often involves much navel-gazing. I have seen demisexuals (people who aren’t keen on one night stands but like sex within a relationship- so probably most of us really) try to claim a special oppressed status. That, I think, is going to far.

They seem to change pronouns names sexualities gender on a regular basis.

Sexualities that mean not interested in casual sex, any sex, sex unless with someone known for ages, going out with, trust, love and definitely want to have sex with are (unsurprisingly) popular esp with girls.

It's tribal signalling. For the vast majority of children the labels don't actually mean anything. Except it's the done thing in that tribe.

As an aside, I think it would be theoretically lovely to live in a society without labels. But in the present labels are useful for defining boundaries. I’m all for lesbians being able to confidently define themselves as such, and being able to use that definition to tell men hitting on them to piss off.

YY.
The common choice of a label which says essentially no sex for me for school age children is not a surprise. And says it all really.

I think children are having sex later these days. I'll check. Loads don't drink.

(14 was not unusual age for starting drinking, sex when I was a girl. Not common either but we didn't find it shocking. Generally 15/16/17 sex some older of course.
In this area drugs also all over the place from 15/16, weed younger. Smoking very common including a fair amount from 12/13).

I will check but sure stats older now.

I'll look

Hard to find info but there's this independent

'They drink less alcohol, take more selfies and eat more avocado toast than anyone else… it’s safe to say that millennials do things differently from their elders.

Now, the latest custom to isolate those aged 18-34 even further from the rest of society is with regards to sex, as new research reveals that millennials are having sex far later than previous generations.'

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/millennials-lose-virginities-later-age-26-a8340156.html

@CheeseMmmm

'Your own sexuality is a private thing'.

No it is NOT. this is a fight lgb people are STILL battling.

I hold DH hand in public without a second thought. I give him a peck on the cheek or lips. I talk about him at work. If I were young again, I could snog him on the street on the way back from night out.

Lgb people STILL in most areas of the country cannot do these things without risking stares, uncomfortable atmosphere, comments either nasty or patronising. Sometimes violence.

This is a FACT. That comment is the essence of homophobia. I don't mind gays but don't flaunt it, keep it in private, I don't want it in my face etc have been pointed at for years as correctly indicating there's still an issue.

1. I'm bisexual so you can take your accusations of my point of view being the "essence of homophobia" and maybe think about the fact that in your white knighting for LBG people, you are talking over the many, many, many lesbian, gay and bisexual people who are deeply concerned about what is happening with today's children. You are using cliched talking points, like ease of PDAs to show how right on you are. While ignoring the issue of acceptance of homosexuality being used as a cover by people with different agendas. A lot of people, LGB and straight and even numerous trans people, are rightly very concerned about it. Both in terms of women and children's boundaries being eroded, the loss of spaces for actual LGB people and the backlash we're already starting to see from some quarters.

1. Sexuality is private in that it's up to every person alone to know and work out what their sexuality is. No-one can influence you to be attracted to people you aren't. Even within the sex group you are attracted to, you will literally only ever be attracted to a small fraction of a percent of the people you meet. And what makes you attracted to them is private and personal. It's you, it comes from your biological make-up, your chemistry, your past experiences. And no-one can ever deliberately change that.

1. I subconsciously denied my attraction to women from the first crush I developed on a female friend. I didn't want to be a lesbian and found huge relief in the fact that I couldn't be as I had real attraction to boys/men. It took me a long, long time to realise that the draw I felt towards certain women wasn't just a desire to be friends and that straight women didn't usually feel turned on by women. I used to think it was heteronormative society that had stopped me acknowledging my whole sexuality. But that wasn't the main culprit. I had to shed a lot of internalised misogyny before I could look at other women as real potential partners. Not homophobia, I used to actually slightly wish I was a gay man at times as a teenager. But misogyny. I thought men were better and I was only equal because I wasn't like other girls. Shedding that internalised misogyny was the best thing that I ever did for me in my life. I haven't just been able to accept that I am attracted to women but I have also come to realise how much I actively like women. How great we are. How our interests aren't silly. How 'girly things' aren't lesser than 'manly things.' How fucking reductive it is that we use girly and manly. Misogyny runs through most of us to some degree or another and it holds us all back in so many ways.

And this new 'queer' movement is the most misogynistic shit I've ever seen in my life. It's scary and it's pushing past women's boundaries every which way it can. And it's making women and girls into bad guys for not being willing to be open and inclusive in their sexuality. It's not telling them it's ok to be who they are and allowing them space to internally explore their attractions and learning about their boundaries with partners. It's actively telling young girls that they need to be willing to include bodies their actual sexuality precludes them from being with because otherwise they are reducing people to their genitals and that is wrong. Large numbers of 11 year olds declaring that they are pansexual isn't necessarily a good thing or even a harmless thing. It's very likely a sign of 11 year olds being groomed to ignore their instinctive boundaries.

DS (13) recently came out to us as assexual- but he thinks he is probably gay. He hates the thought of sex- I think normal at that age -but one day wants a relationship. I dislike all of these labels- but it seems to be what is going on at school. (He has told us and his friends but nobody else at school as he doesn't want to be bullied for that at school- there is a lot of homophobic language at school. And he has been told that he can't talk about being gay at a friends house- as friends mother doesn't approve of these things.

I think that society is just really sexualised- I watched Friends recently and so many jokes and so on are just about sex. It is not surprising how much of this filters through

And this new 'queer' movement is the most misogynistic shit I've ever seen in my life. It's scary and it's pushing past women's boundaries every which way it can. And it's making women and girls into bad guys for not being willing to be open and inclusive in their sexuality. It's not telling them it's ok to be who they are and allowing them space to internally explore their attractions and learning about their boundaries with partners. It's actively telling young girls that they need to be willing to include bodies their actual sexuality precludes them from being with because otherwise they are reducing people to their genitals and that is wrong. Large numbers of 11 year olds declaring that they are pansexual isn't necessarily a good thing or even a harmless thing. It's very likely a sign of 11 year olds being groomed to ignore their instinctive boundaries.
I like all of this post but particularly this part. It makes me wonder, how many boys are claiming to be omnisexual or pansexual? If there is no pressure to be accepting (in theory or in practice) of anyone on earth as a potential sexual partner, then surely we'd see a large number of boys claiming this sexuality too?

DS (13) recently came out to us as assexual- but he thinks he is probably gay.
I've seen evidence that asexual identities are being used as a shield by children against the oversexualisation of everything. I don't blame them at all! If the choices are fuck everyone all the time or opt out, I'd opt out too!

I think children are having sex later these days. I'll check. I think this is evidence of that too, strangely enough.
If sex is sold as either a performance sport (for boys) or and endurance test (for girls) and relationships are seen as passé (it's all about hookups and FWB) then it becomes much less appealing to children and young adults with healthy or healthy-ish self esteem.

Ideally a person would begin to explore sex within the context of a relationship, even a teenage romance allows for some personal development. Fucking seen as something one uninvolved individual does to another uninvolved individual makes the whole thing seem a bit pointless when masturbation is a safer and less soul-destroying option.

I've seen evidence that asexual identities are being used as a shield by children against the oversexualisation of everything. I don't blame them at all! If the choices are fuck everyone all the time or opt out, I'd opt out too!

Except asexual is a realky difficult sexuality to navigate where ot would be impossible to really elaborate on it without the take away being that even of you don't feel attracted to someone feel any form of sexual attraction you can still have sex with them.

We heed to stop turning a normal.state of affairs , being uninterested in anything or any one or bow you feel about 99.9 percent of the population 99.9 percent of the time as a sexuality in itself that needs elaborating on.

Leave that to adults to decide. There's too much of a chance to teach kids it's normal to have sex without being attracted to anyone

Good post Wanderingowl
I'm also bi and the suggestion that we are homophobic if we find problems with prepubescent children being labelled as omnisexual is just offensive. Children talking about, and acting out adult sexual things too early is also a known warning sign of them being groomed and sexually abused.
FlyingOink Asexuality and demisexuality are definitely used as shields and that is completely understandable in this porn and hookup culture.

I mean, why make yourself vulnerable either psychologically or physically with someone who doesn't even pretend to care about you? I'm glad kids are rejecting all that. Adults are seeing it as hollow and unsatisfying too, but we are equally led by the fact casual sex is seen as liberating, cool and sexy so many adults go through all this and then realise afterwards it was a bit shit. Especially women, but I've spoken with men who regret some of the sex they've had with women they didn't particularly like, as with men there's the expectation to be constantly up for it with anyone.
It's a vicious circle really, people don't like to be lonely and horny, so they have bad sex with people they don't like, then feel more lonely afterwards. If young people are beginning to see through this then happy days.

Also I don't agree that this is just a teenage trend. These children have all been exposed to way more than song lyrics. Average age of exposure to what used to be illegal porn is nine years old for boys. That's not pearl-clutching, it's just a sad fact.

Except asexual is a realky difficult sexuality to navigate where ot would be impossible to really elaborate on it without the take away being that even of you don't feel attracted to someone feel any form of sexual attraction you can still have sex with them.
Yeah I've seen this too, the expectation that asexuals have "maintenance sex" because they like their partner/friend/whoever but that they don't actually fancy them. It's grim.

It's still some form of protection though, as it is seen as a "valid" sexuality and does offer some form of opt-out for many.

I jusy think it's important to leave a way back.

Not cos every gay child will change their mind but because this current state of love bombing is manipulative. How do you get away from lables which brought so many friends with it.

And ultimately the kids end up just being used any way. To elevate the social standing of others. It becomes all about the allies virtue signalling. The kids in the middle are just forgotten.

Encouraging the sexuality to be the only interesting thing about you isn't healthy. Nor is creating and enabling the sense if victimhood just so the straight allies can get their " credit"

One of the things that strikes me about asexuality is that it's quite common for women in particular to take time, sometimes a lot of time, to figure out how to make sex work for them on a day to day basis. They may still be interested in it, though, and how do they define that? As a generalized attraction, as some kind of romantic thing, as something they want to do because they like their partner? Maintenance sex? Some people have sex mainly because they want kids.

The fact is that none of these categories and definitions, even when you break them down into these tiny parts, really perfectly describes each experience or the basis on which they make decisions perfectly. All the old and new terms around sexuality don't always encompass every person perfectly throughout their whole lives. Our sexuality especially changes and developed throughout the teen years and early 20s. In some cases it can even seem to change radically. Were these latent feelings, or real change, or what? well, honestly, probably any and all, and really, who cares?

But it's not helpful and just really inaccurate to tell children that they will have a clear view of what they are and that this will define them, and so on. That's not how human beings work. Most people at 11 will have some significant change to their sexual attractions over the next ten to 15 years.

This thread was a bit of a roller coaster for me to read, but an interesting read nonetheless. Piqued my interest at the mention of asexuality as I'm Ace myself.
I have nothing to contribute to the conversation that won't get me yelled at by everyone else here, but it was almost fun to read through, I guess.