Omnisexual 11 year old

[Perplexedmother]

DS was talking about his new friend today who is omnisexual. I had to look it up to understand it properly and when I did I saw just how many different labels (and flags!) there are. What's with the label obsession!! I'm genuinely intrigued about what's going on with young people that drives the need for labels. I know it's always been a thing to find your tribe/identity as a young person. Is that what this is?

I know this should probably be in parenting but I've already spent the day feeling like a lectured dinosaur, it's safer here!

@MarshmallowSwede

All the focus on sex and sexuality at such a young age shows just how sexualised children are these days. It’s the fixation and obsessing and the seeming need to have everyone publicly mark themselves. We forget that these are not adults.

They have not even gone thru puberty. It’s not about being straight or gay, it’s that children are fixated on sexual things younger and younger and this is usually a red flag. But for some reason we are acting like this is nothing to be concerned about.

Of course children have crushes at this age. But for children to be so fixated on labeling who they are attracted to at such a young age is really sad. They should be outside playing in nature with friends and just enjoying being children.

It seems as is childhood no longer exists and children don’t have any period of life except for being an actual baby where sex does not permeate their life. Very very sad… and disturbing.

This is such a good comment. Ensuring that even the youngest of children discuss sex and sexuality is a way of eroding their boundaries, especially the boundary that says This is a child. Sex is not for them

We all know the type of adults who seek to erode children's boundaries - they appear in court on a depressingly regular basis. It's so distressing that "good" but thoughtless people and organisations are unwittingly eroding children's boundaries. The use of age inappropriate behaviour, language, visual images used to be a massive red flag in safeguarding terms. No longer it appears.

I've only seen "omnisexual" used about adults to describe that they're into anything that moves.
Who is telling children that this is an appropriate term for an 11 yo?
Who wants pre-pubescent children to identify with various sexual labels?
It reeks of grooming.

Who wants pre-pubescent children to identify with various sexual labels

There seem to be labels even for what people would regard as normal stages for children.. ie- not interested in anyone romantically at all. Not even thinking about it.

Being only attracted to people you have gotten to know amd learn about- ie what most people feel

As far as relationships go with children it's not realky going to be beyond friendship. In which case sex , gender etc ot doesn't matter of you click.as friends u click as friends.

But hey let's turn everything into a sexuality giving adults the excuse to talk to children abkut sex and sexuality. Which should realky be down to parents and not every organisation that children may or may not be involved with.

These long winded explanations amd very subtle differences will not really register with kids.

The take away will be that it's normal to have sex when you don't want to or that you have to be open to everyone as a partner or you are exclusionary.

Children don't realky need to mmpw luch beyond sometimes wonen marry women amd sometimes men marry men. Adults can marry the person they love etc

Anyone aware of all these extras , well they really should have their Internet usage monitored more closely or organisations are overstepping the boundaries

@Wanderingowl It was like she was magnanimously announcing that she was accepting of all people and just a better, more generous person for it.
That was my guess as a possible scenario with the child I'm referring to. And I agree it's problematic.

I am really struggling with this thread. I'm really out of step! Happens to everyone obviously and you all know when it does it's really confusing!

1. Sexuality. Yes at 10/11 it's starting to bubble up. Who got fancy. Heterosexuality is still just totally the norm. So goes hardly noticed/ unremarked. Loads of girls that age and up have had crushes.

And boys. In my day smash hits there were plenty posters of bands with young men to put on your wall. And boys too with young women in bands etc. Also TV film. The idea that it's aok to be gay or bi etc. An idea but surely you all know that boys still use gay as an insult? Or say a boy is girly? I can't imagine that calling s girl a lesbian has vanished either... The posts on here dismissing the fact that these feelings start that young. They do and if not straight it's still hard, confusing, and no not actually just accepted and fine. Esp when at school.

1. When did you all grow up? I was late 70s/ 80s. Not all this stuff about sex/ sexuality around for children? Seriously? I remember.

• HIV/AIDS govt public health messaging all over. Primetime TV. Of course children saw it. ALWAYS USE A CONDOM. I'm sure male/male imagery often and obv about sex. And quite right too. It was a killer for years. Devastating loss of young lives.
• Relax got 'banned' number one for ages. No they didn't show the video TOTP I'm pretty certain! But the band were on. All over the radio. Song is solely about orgasm. Complete with effort/ orgasm vocals from (the legend) Holly j.

• Smalltown boy huge hit. Amazing video. All about growing up gay in smaller community. Fancy boy at swimming. Get kicked in. Parents tearful goodbye move to city where going to be easier.

• like a virgin
• salt n Peppa let's talk about sex
• wham loads. I'm your man? Holy fuck!

Why the 'it wasn't like that in my day' stuff?

60s 70s just as bad!

You MUST know this surely?

It's the same. No different. Children are innocent. They sing the lyrics, wear the clothes, now they adopt the labels. The vast vast majority 10/ 12/ 14 even. They aren't like an adult. They don't get it. It's interesting, but all a bit nebulous.

There's no reason to see this any differently.

Saying it's too young to think about sexuality is homophobic.. Sorry that's the bottom line.

And for the vast vast majority it's the current youth culture. That's all.

If a child is v unhappy, neglected, being exposed to adult sexuality. Then as ever. It's s massive concern. And rightly so.

But that's not new either.

Sorry to go on.

'The take away will be that it's normal to have sex when you don't want to or that you have to be open to everyone as a partner or you are exclusionary.'

I'm your man massive hit. Excerpt.

Wholesome? Innocent? Totp massive hit. On radio. We all know the lyrics and sang along. I was 11.
Songs from 60s 70s loads WAY dodgier...

'So good, you're divine
Wanna take you, wanna make you
But they tell me it's a crime
Oh, everybody knows where the good people go
But where we're going baby, ain't no such word as no
Baby, I'm your man (Don't you know who I am?)
Baby, I'm your man (You know, you bet)
If you're gonna do it, do it right (right)
Do it with me (uh-huh baby)
If you're gonna do it, do it right (right)
Do it with me (take me home)
If you're gonna do it, do it right (right)
Do it with me
If you're gonna do it, do it right (right)
Do it with me
First class information
(I'll be your) Sexual inspiration
And with some stimulation
We can do it right...
So why waste time, with the other guys?
When you can have mine
I ain't askin' for no sacrifice
Baby our friends do not need to know
I've got a real nice place to go
Listen
I don't need you to care
I don't need you to understand, yeah
All I want is for you to be there
And when I'm turned on, if you want me
I'm your man...
I'm your man'

The linking of "sexual acceptance" and being kind to young children Perplexedmother is such a worry. As has been repeatedly said on here, sexual relationships are exclusive. People are under no obligation to have relationships with anyone they're not interested in (no matter what Stonewall says) .
Children don't have the understanding of these issues - they're psychologically and intellectually unable to navigate their way through complex relationships when they're children. It's why children are so often abused as they don't have the resources / skills to protect themselves.

Read the lyrics above.

What do you make of the message?

And loads of girls pick something like 'graysexual'.

Meaning they only want sex with someone they trust, know, care about, and who feels the same way.

So...

And sadly girls have been pushed with variations on 'be kind' forever by boys.

Saying it's too young to think about sexuality is homophobic.. Sorry that's the bottom line.

That's bollocks, and not what we're discussing. Ever since DD was tiny the message from me is "when you're grown up and you go out with a girl or boy or no one". Every time.

But it's the absolute obsession with it so young. As I said, DD's friend never buys anything but it has a rainbow flag. She's 11. I liked Indiana Jones at that age but if every single thing I bought had his face on it, my mum would have been (rightly) concerned.

Again just sorry just not feeling the difference at all.

I'm in no way saying the source, aims, all of it is a disaster for loads of people. I know that. I've known it for years and been posting on here saying... Well everything.

On this though.

Young children in the main it's just the same. Tribal, innocent. Yes loads of extremely concerning stuff from adults being pushed.

But for the majority of children, this thread feels like a massive over reaction.

I posted about DD. There was this stuff end primary school. And secondary school. All her friendship group have various pronouns, name changes. Various gender identities and sexualities.

It doesn't mean anything for the vast majority.

I think when it comes to your own children. Your own children's friends. Which is what this thread is about. Jumping to its disturbing and at 10/11 they know this in a grown up way, rather than the way the vast majority of children that age have always been.

It's just way OTT.

My eldest DD is Bi and my youngest DD’s 15 now. This IDENTIFICATION (deliberate capitals) has become such a big thing in her group at school that it’s become a way to compete and bully. She is straight, but is constantly told that she gives out “bi or gay vibes” and when she asserts that she knows who she is, she is accused of either being in denial, or not being an ally. Nothing is worse than accusing today’s teen of not being “woke”, and also to “reverse discriminate.” I was talking with my psychiatrist friend and she sent me this article and I think that while you should absolutely support and defend your kids, etc… watch out for signs of this as it’s everywhere. It’s really complicated and such a fucking unhealthy power play! www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/618289/

'That's bollocks, and not what we're discussing. Ever since DD was tiny the message from me is "when you're grown up and you go out with a girl or boy or no one". Every time.'

YOU. you don't know that boys using gay as an insult is still commonplace?
You don't know how massively children enforce gender norms in primary school?
You don't know that irrespective of what you do or say, loads of parents don't?
You don't know that in general actually knowing children with same sex parents is not terribly common?
That gay men and lesbians often don't even hold hands in public because of the looks, stares. Comments, worse?
You haven't noticed that 99.9% of media with couples they are man/ woman?
Fairytales/ Disney?
I mean on and on.

You can't not know that.

And for years gay men and lesbians. And in the background bi people.
Have been saying for DECADES that they knew... Something. Gay.. different... Didnt get the fuss about this or that pop star/ actor?

On this thread. And I'm sure it's not intentional. The fact is that loads of posters are saying can't know/ shouldn't have any idea/ not right. About 11yo having any thoughts at all about sexuality.

That is not on. It's just not. It's throwing away what lgb people have been saying for DECADES.
Because of worries about something else.

Nope. Baby bathwater.

And in fact you say that your have been taking about sexuality with DD since tiny.

Doesn't that kind of destroy your own point?
That they shouldn't know or be exposed to anything about sexuality?

I can't keep up with all the names.
It seems like yet another pressure - feeling the need to define yourself at such a young age.
I wish we could all just be who we are without the need to shoehorn ourselves into a label or definition at any age.

' it’s become a way to compete and bully.

She is straight, but is constantly told that she gives out “bi or gay vibes” ...'

But... But...

Bullying by saying you're gay/ lesbian/ (not so much bi in my day).

Has been a major way to bully for decades.

Adapting to things about now. Doesn't alter the fact this is a longstanding common way to bully.

The issue is the bullying.

If it was about 'woke' and you're a bad person if not straight. Then the way to bully would be to say. You're straight, you're cis, you're boring, you don't know anything.

To use gay/ bi is totally arse about face. It also happens to be the exact same as said for decades.

Bullies find a weak spot. Then attack. If this didn't upset her they would try something else.

I understand no one sees my pov at all but that's ok. I do feel strongly enough about this to keep at it for at least a while longer though sorry.

@CheeseMmmm - I couldn’t agree more that kids are aware of their sexuality from a very early age. I know I definitely was, and I know all my friends were. I worked in the arts and then for an airline, so my kids have grown up with family and friends identifying as virtually every sexuality anyway. It’s normal in our family. I’m also pleased that for most kids it is a safer place for them to be able to discuss it. I’m not happy when it becomes the sole narrative and a controlling force in the social life of my kids and it’s destructive. My eldest (17) identifies as bi. She is not out to everyone because she doesn’t feel safe with that yet. That’s her business. Because of this, she has been socially ostracized within what she thought was her safe community at school. They have been brutal. She is of course, expected to respect their boundaries. (And does…) My youngest is now being absolutely hounded by several girls who are “outing” her incorrectly and sexually harassing her. I have kept screenshots and have threatened police action. (School are trying to guilt-trip me atm, but it’s getting beyond a joke. I have more than enough to act on, but I also have to respect my daughter’s wishes. She has two more weeks or one more obscene message and the decision will be made for her. Their behaviour is becoming increasingly predatory and manipulative, and she is showing me everything, and giving me her phone at 7pm every night, so I think I know where this is going.)

Finding Meno yep yep yep.

Are there loads with you?

DD it's just names pronouns changing on the regular.

I said. Thing is my memory isn't what it was and I don't know them that well. And you know I'm rubbish with names. (About 7 in her friendship group).
I can't keep up. Do you mind if I use they for them all. And I'll try to remember name but realistically I'm not going to and tbh I can't remember whose which any more.

She said fine.

For children who are looking to see doc, or depressed, or worrying behaviour etc. Then obv a worry.

And looking back, adopting different names/ personas is also not at all new.

Justilou Jesus. They're at the same school I assume. And both are being seriously bullied.

This stuff is the method. Not the reason. If it wasn't that method it would be another. Children, school, bullying it's not actually about. Where you live/ what team you support/ what clothes you wear. Or this stuff. It's the method rarely the actual reason.

Have you considered starting a thread on a board relevant for this specifically?

The school aren't interested. The bullying is police report level. Your children have to go to school. Have you had any advice?

Sorry know not support thread for this but awful situation.

The school are actually being very good to my girls, tbh… the eldest has recently been diagnosed as having slight ASD tendencies also (affecting her socially, not academically) and they’ve been wonderfully supportive with both of the girls and totally understanding. The reason they don’t want me to go scorched earth is the other girl’s family situations. (It’s a private school. The school are probably funding these girls, and keeping them fed, but they are very fucked-up little bunnies and my girls are not the only ones they are affecting. I am very empathetic to their situations, but think that perhaps this has gone too far for the school to manage. I think their behaviour is dangerous.)

**Also, school has been very protective of their privacy. I know what I know because I have walked in on some dangerous shit when I have been to collect them. I have called DOCS (Department of Child Services) and reported what I have seen and spoken to the school about that myself. This was before all of this, and no child of mine has ever been to theirs for a play date or sleepover - ever.

Unusual for fee paying school to do that. Round here anyway. I had no idea that happened unless they wanted them for sport/ brains etc. I had no idea despite charitable status any actually were charitable! Anyway that's side issue.

Your two DDs are being seriously bullied. School may say nice words but in end not helping stop it.

And although these two girls may be the leaders as it were, fact is that they both have others with them. Enough to mean one DD ostracised I think you said.

School saying blah all well and good but it's multiple children bullying. And that they need to sort as ostracism constant multiple bullies I mean. No they're not really dealing with it are they.

I'm so sorry. But it's actions not words that count and children in that position, every day facing it. Sorry I know you know all this but it's just awful.

Xposts sorry I think you're not in UK?

If not then not familiar with schools system so ignore anything that isn't relevant for you.

You are focusing on two siblings a lot but it's multiple bullies involved. Whole situation needs dealing with somehow.

I am trying not to be too identifying for my girls and the other girls due to privacy issues in case other mums on here. The school have actually been great within their scope, tbh. This bullying has escalated outside of that though. They are “counselling” these families outside of school to try and avoid the route I suspect this is going to take. (Foster care.) It’s unfortunate, but I think it’s going to have to go there. Tbh, without directly saying so, one of the teachers involved has implied that she might be relieved to be unburdened of this responsibility. She has pressure from every direction, and the pressure from upstream is perhaps unrealistic and very intrusive. (I genuinely like her and believe that she does have the best interests of all of these kids at heart and is doing her very best. She is going above and beyond, atm.)