Omnisexual 11 year old

[Perplexedmother]

DS was talking about his new friend today who is omnisexual. I had to look it up to understand it properly and when I did I saw just how many different labels (and flags!) there are. What's with the label obsession!! I'm genuinely intrigued about what's going on with young people that drives the need for labels. I know it's always been a thing to find your tribe/identity as a young person. Is that what this is?

I know this should probably be in parenting but I've already spent the day feeling like a lectured dinosaur, it's safer here!

CheeseMmmm you seem to be in agreement with most others on this thread now.

@CheeseMmmm

'Also, it doesn't bloody matter if kids are assumed to be straight, so long as they aren't harmed.'

They have always been harmed especially girls. By older boys/men exploiting their burgeoning interest.

Grooming, coercing, badgering for pics, celebrities getting hold of underage girls who fancy them, so so much.

Yes, hence my use of "so long as they aren't harmed". At no point did I suggest that straight girls are never harmed or even that pretending to be something one is not isn't ever harmful.

But if passersby assume a child isn't gay? I don't see what the problem is with that really. Less explaining to do, and the child doesn't have to be done kind of representative for the community etc

@FlyingOink

Chickenyhead I hope your daughter is OK. Unfortunately one of her biggest problems is always going to be about logistics. Finding other lesbians, finding enough of them to actually be able to choose a partner and not end up in a mismatched relationship by default, or worse staying in a bad relationship because the thought of looking for a replacement puts her off leaving! It really is a problem.

Yes, I know. It makes me very sad.

My biggest concern right now is the pressure to trans away the gay. It seems society is currently more willing to accept that, than her being same sex attracted.

It infuriates me that the school and CAMHS etc are so invested in children's sexuality at that age. My belief is that she has seen the reality of life as a lesbian and is trying to escape it.

I've told her that she just hasn't found her people yet, but she will.

But secretly, given how things now are, with transbians everywhere, will she? Will she find a place where actual real homosexuality is ok? It makes me cry for her.

This is what I have been saying ALL THE WAY THROUGH.

it is the plentiful comments scattered throughout saying things that insist on a view of children before all this, that is totally unrelated to how things were.

It's the broad brush assertions that 11yo before this were not exposed to nothing to do with sex or sexuality. That sexuality should be private Full Stop. When sexuality includes heterosexual. Also same sex. Even though gay people have for years talked about eg feeling they need to hide it at work, not mention partner etc and how that's shitty.

I have not changed my tune. Pleased to see some posters who will actually discuss though! Even if say wrong, why is good. Rather than go away not listening.

I can't understand though why pointing out that a massive hit sung by a man who was idolised by massive numbers of girls. Singing lyrics which echoed common ways boys try to coerce girls. And saying he would RAPE if not illegal because that's how much he wants someone. And I don't remember any slight reaction from anywhere that actually wanting to rape is not a standard way to feel if you really like someone. Is not anything much really.

I raised it much earlier because of insistence that in previous decades there just weren't iffy messages in society/ popular culture that children consumed. Because... Again. It's just not true.

Chickenyhead she will. We'll always exist, even if everything moves entirely underground once more. And there's a good chance she'll have a great life and meet a great partner. But it's difficult to sell ifs, buts and maybes to a young person living in a hypersexual society when the reality is she will spend more time single than she might like. That consumerist ideal of selecting partner after partner as if they were consumer durables; it's hideous but it's what we all get sold, and she might feel that she's missing out.

You couldn't make a lesbian version of Love Island without some of the participants already being known to each other. But she'll be OK.

11??
Should be out playing with friends, learning new things, having fun. Not worrying about their sexuality when they’re barely pubescent and haven’t even exchanged a kiss. FFS.

Asking with other examples! That one came after massive well known examples were... Ignored because didn't fit with majority assertions.

It's the broad brush assertions that 11yo before this were not exposed to nothing to do with sex or sexuality. That sexuality should be private Full Stop. When sexuality includes heterosexual. Also same sex. Even though gay people have for years talked about eg feeling they need to hide it at work, not mention partner etc and how that's shitty.

Maybe if you quoted the actual posts you were opposing it would be easier to follow what you are arguing. I haven't seen anyone claim eleven year olds used to be fundamentally different to how eleven year olds are now. All the comments have been about the wider society, but you seem hell-bent on dodgy song lyrics and refuse to accept that the porn explosion happened and has completely changed things for girls. And you really need to stop talking on behalf of gay people, we can speak for ourselves thanks. An eleven year old girl coming out doesn't make my work life any better, and you've failed to argue that it would.

@CheeseMmmm

Asking with other examples! That one came after massive well known examples were... Ignored because didn't fit with majority assertions.

What is this even in reference to? Look, if you want to, or indeed have to, write in the way you do at least be clear about what post you are referring to because this one, on its own, makes no sense

It's a long thread! You want me to go through and read the whole lot again to get proof that I'm not making up that those things have been said? And that will miss the way it progressed as well. How it got to where it got to.

The poster who wrote about her children being bullied that went in a strange direction as well. I hope her DDs will be ok.

Have you been on the thread from start?

It's a conversation that develops, has loads of changes of direction etc. As threads are.

Cutting and posting a stack of previous bits for you so that you can... Review? Will still not give you full picture of overall flavour. You doubt that I'm being honest in why I made recent comments? My posts are from start as well to see my thoughts.

I can't see that asking me to essentially précis the thread including cnp extracts to evidence how my recent posts relate to the thread as a whole. Is a reasonable request. It's pretty unusual on here. I tend to read thread if interested to catch up iyswim.

Why is it hard to believe that I posted examples of things related to sex and sexuality in the past that were known/seen etc by children. Given the topic and the length of the thread? Rather than, it's probably not totally random and unrelated to other posts?

This article is the type that is increasingly all over the internet right now. If you don't want to click on it, I'll sum it up; I'm a transperson, yes it's bigoted not to want to have sex with me. More transpeople than ever are being murdered, think about that and examine your reasons not to want to have sex with me. Are you transphobic, traumatised, doesn't matter. I am a person and I deserve sex.

So at a point in time when this kind of article is one of hundreds being posted. When women are, en masse, being called bigots for asserting their boundaries and lesbians (and bisexual women) are being kicked off their own dating sites, at times for even quietly swiping past 'too many' transwomen. When tv shows aimed at young girls like The Babysitters Club has a 13 year old character demonstrate how good and openminded and kind she is, by stating that she is open to having a relationship with everyone. When minor celebrities are publicly calling little girls kinky and still being celebrated. When a recent study in the US showed that 39% of Gen Z people identified as 'LGBTQ' but the vast majority do not experience same sex attraction!

If children as young as 11 are declaring themselves open to having sex with anyone and everyone, the odds are it's because of social grooming not because they are actually bisexual. And even if they are bisexual and have realised it so precociously young, they sure as hell shouldn't know that they are also attracted to transmen, transwomen, otherkin, non-binary amabs, non-binary afabs, transmascs, transfemmes, eggs, wolfkin, pups, etc.

mashable.com/article/no-trans-people-preference-transphobic?fbclid=IwAR2gy78cgVI1Xah5n0x-H740u3KD8VOJprgev962_qtLBr_SXIP2Ki7O108

If children as young as 11 are declaring themselves open to having sex with anyone and everyone, the odds are it's because of social grooming not because they are actually bisexual. And even if they are bisexual and have realised it so precociously young, they sure as hell shouldn't know that they are also attracted to transmen, transwomen, otherkin, non-binary amabs, non-binary afabs, transmascs, transfemmes, eggs, wolfkin, pups, etc.

Spot on. Wanderingowl you have a way with words.

Omni/pan are not sexualities - they're gender labels.

We know that co-mobidity for mental health issues for children who take on gender labels is very high. The support for children's mental health is dire and these labels are a further barrier because of cries of "phobia". This thread being an excellent example of such.

@Akela64

Omni/pan are not sexualities - they're gender labels.

We know that co-mobidity for mental health issues for children who take on gender labels is very high. The support for children's mental health is dire and these labels are a further barrier because of cries of "phobia". This thread being an excellent example of such.

In what way are they gender labels?

L on

Girls will face the same issues of prejudice regardless of the gender label they give themselves - they with the collusion of adults - will just have no way of evaluating or trying to change their situation. And for some they will have the added burden of a body damaged by bindings, surgery and experimental hormone use. None of this is new - girls bodies have been mutilated in the name of gender for centuries.

Rationalising this as progressive or business as usual (because fundamentally it is) is not going to benefit girls is it?

Haven't RTFT but...

Whatever happened to...

"That's nice dear. Well, we all like who we like, don't we? And you can think about this a bit more when you're older. 11 is a bit young to be dating and having special friends. You know you can always talk to me about this stuff if there's anything you're worried about.

"Now, what about your homework / football practice / that programme we were going to watch?"

They are gender labels because you have to believe in gender for them to have any meaning.

Sexuality is about human sexed bodies. Not gender ideology.

There's something that feels too parallel to grooming in my opinion, any school talks with eleven year olds that lead them to label themselves like this. OMG
It should be like I'm 11 I like space lego best. I'm 11 and I like chomps more than Freddos. Or whatever.

@FlyingOink In what way are they gender labels?

I think what @Akela64 means is that they are basically bisexuality with "extra steps" due to the current insistence by some that there are more than two genders. That these gender labels can go hand in hand with poor mental health outcomes for children. And that the types of posters on this thread who are accusing those of us who are concerned of having a number of 'phobias' are in fact, making it much harder for many children to receive the actual help they need.

Exactly @wandergrowl.

Sorry for the typos on yr name. How embarrassingly rude. Very sorry.

[quote Wanderingowl]This article is the type that is increasingly all over the internet right now. If you don't want to click on it, I'll sum it up; I'm a transperson, yes it's bigoted not to want to have sex with me. More transpeople than ever are being murdered, think about that and examine your reasons not to want to have sex with me. Are you transphobic, traumatised, doesn't matter. I am a person and I deserve sex.

So at a point in time when this kind of article is one of hundreds being posted. When women are, en masse, being called bigots for asserting their boundaries and lesbians (and bisexual women) are being kicked off their own dating sites, at times for even quietly swiping past 'too many' transwomen. When tv shows aimed at young girls like The Babysitters Club has a 13 year old character demonstrate how good and openminded and kind she is, by stating that she is open to having a relationship with everyone. When minor celebrities are publicly calling little girls kinky and still being celebrated. When a recent study in the US showed that 39% of Gen Z people identified as 'LGBTQ' but the vast majority do not experience same sex attraction!

If children as young as 11 are declaring themselves open to having sex with anyone and everyone, the odds are it's because of social grooming not because they are actually bisexual. And even if they are bisexual and have realised it so precociously young, they sure as hell shouldn't know that they are also attracted to transmen, transwomen, otherkin, non-binary amabs, non-binary afabs, transmascs, transfemmes, eggs, wolfkin, pups, etc.

mashable.com/article/no-trans-people-preference-transphobic?fbclid=IwAR2gy78cgVI1Xah5n0x-H740u3KD8VOJprgev962_qtLBr_SXIP2Ki7O108[/quote]
Such a good post Wanderingowl . I'm repeating it so it doesn't get missed among so many others.

Akela64 I see what you mean now!