Omnisexual 11 year old

[Perplexedmother]

DS was talking about his new friend today who is omnisexual. I had to look it up to understand it properly and when I did I saw just how many different labels (and flags!) there are. What's with the label obsession!! I'm genuinely intrigued about what's going on with young people that drives the need for labels. I know it's always been a thing to find your tribe/identity as a young person. Is that what this is?

I know this should probably be in parenting but I've already spent the day feeling like a lectured dinosaur, it's safer here!

I did not say anyone was homophobic.

I said SOME of the points made ARE homophobic.

Eg

11yo is too young to know sexuality
Sexuality should be kept private

These exact things about sexuality full stop have been said to/ shout same sex attraction for yonks.

These are things i have seen raised as issues for decades.

That is simply a FACT. This thread is an eye opener for sure.

Im straight. I hate PDAs regardless of the combination of sexes.

I hate holding hands myself because being mauled about in public makes me feel like he may as well just piss up my leg.

Couples that hold hands down the street piss me off. They take up the whole of the pavement and force me to walk on the road. Even my kids know to go single file when required.

Makes no difference to me what way round it all is

Woah!!! Crikey.

Holding hands with kids seemingly included!

There are loads of pavement space threads that's a bit off topic here and those conversations are fight club max do we need another!!

@CheeseMmmm

I did not say anyone was homophobic.

I said SOME of the points made ARE homophobic.

Eg

11yo is too young to know sexuality
Sexuality should be kept private

These exact things about sexuality full stop have been said to/ shout same sex attraction for yonks.

These are things i have seen raised as issues for decades.

That is simply a FACT. This thread is an eye opener for sure.

I'd actually been taking your posts in good faith up until this. Numerous same sex attracted people are making the points you are calling homophobic. And you are refusing to take stock and wonder why. You are claiming to be defending LGB people from the hateful homophobia of the LGB people who disagree with you. Seriously?

Tbh, I hate using my attraction to other women as some sort of "gotcha" because a person doesn't need to experience same sex attraction in order to recognise a possible child protection issue. But it's frankly mind boggling that you are berating the people you are claiming a moral high ground in defense of. So I don't take your posts in good faith anymore. You are just trying to stir.

@CheeseMmmm

I did not say anyone was homophobic.

I said SOME of the points made ARE homophobic.

Eg

11yo is too young to know sexuality
Sexuality should be kept private

These exact things about sexuality full stop have been said to/ shout same sex attraction for yonks.

These are things i have seen raised as issues for decades.

That is simply a FACT. This thread is an eye opener for sure.

Honestly Cheese - you've missed all the nuance in some excellent posts. Nobody has said 11 is too young to know about sexuality. Most children will know about heterosexual / gay / lesbian etc. What posters are saying is that 11 is too young to self identify into different niche sexualities. Parents (and some of us are lesbian parents) are talking about young children being put under immense pressure by adult activists to understand and adopt different sexual identities before they are intellectually, emotionally and psychologically mature enough to do so. It's about safeguarding children, not homophobia.

Actually I need to correct that, numerous same sex people are making the points that you are deliberately twisting to mean something bad when it's been repeatedly explained to you that you are misunderstanding.

Or at least continually pretending to misunderstand.

Well said Wanderingowl
As a lesbian teacher and parent having homophobia thrown at me for being concerned about safeguarding children is infuriating. As you commented in your excellent post upthread:
And this new 'queer' movement is the most misogynistic shit I've ever seen in my life. It's scary and it's pushing past women's boundaries every which way it can. And it's making women and girls into bad guys for not being willing to be open and inclusive in their sexuality. It's not telling them it's ok to be who they are and allowing them space to internally explore their attractions and learning about their boundaries with partners. It's actively telling young girls that they need to be willing to include bodies their actual sexuality precludes them from being with because otherwise they are reducing people to their genitals and that is wrong

There's a reason dangerous adults specifically target young children, aiming to remove their boundaries....

The point is many people don't particularly need or want to see OTT displays and we need to be careful not to enter ridiculous territory of excusing behaviour that's not appropriate for the time.or place or age because it's homphobic when in fact it wouldn't be appropriate fir anyone. The idea certain groups of people need to he able to act in such ways unchallenged is actually the homophobia.

Yes some kids at 11 may know. But many will not. God I was well into late teens befire I had had interest in anyone. Its actually quite normal not to give a crap. Most 11 year olds used to be down the park or out on their bikes. Not pairing off and labelling themselves. This only really seems to be a thing now they all have phones . Gone is just being friends amd hanging out they are now sending eachother pictures and messaging 24/7.

In trying to make things not be a big deal for kids we have in fact turned it into something huge because now there's apparently a right and a wrong way to be gay straight or bi and it's all about proving you are.

Saying that it's time to calm down a bit and have kids get back.to playing is not homphobic fgs wht are adults so bloody invested in the sexuality of children . Because all these labels didn't come from the kids hese are thought up by adults . The influences beyond, 2 consenting adults can marry the.person they love are coming from.adults. and it's it's excused because apparently being expected to have age appropriate conversations and act in appropriate ways in public and to recognise what is appropriate I'm pu kic is being deemed as phobic. That doesn't benefit children.

Some of the points made are broad brush. The points I posted a little upthread were about children full stop and sexuality full stop.

Focusing on the current identity situation is one thing. Posting sexuality should be kept private full stop is another. And it is just a fact that for people out and about with a same sex partner, it is still in most areas likely to attract some reaction from double takes, states, to potentially more unpleasant reactions. While male female couples don't even think about it.

To use the same things - sexuality should be kept private, you can't know at 11. These are standard views expressed by those who have conceded that gay is a thing but want it to be hidden.

Plenty read these boards and screenshots are taken we all know this.

A post saying sexuality should be private full stop. Given that's not what people mean, then why post it without specifying? To post things that WILL come across s certain way to all those who lurk and grab everything they can to say look they're right wing homophobic fascists etc etc is just not necessary.

I have said this all through the thread- don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. And been taken as I don't know what.

Some of the points when posted generally are 100% things that have been raised a lot for years it's not niche or something. The insistence that saying specific rather than across the board is definitely zero problem full stop I just don't get it.

Loads of other things as well seem very worst possible care scenario and ignoring so much about the past decades, the ongoing worsening coercion expectations by boys towards girls. Which is a massive issue. No acknowledgement I don't thing of general sexual context for children as if one and one thing only is s problem. And I wouldn't have raised this if it wasn't for the amount of total insistence that before this children were innocent and no cultural exposure to sexuality, sex. My points that not true as a generalisation also. Essentially told not to say. Why not? If comments are just not a true picture of how it was before then that's relevant.

CheeseMmmm
What?
The lesbians and bisexual women who are telling you that you're talking out your arse are screenshot fodder and likely to be called right wing homophobic fascists?

No.

George Michael sang some raunchy lyrics but primary school aged kids are being shown violent porn on their schoolmates' phones. It's not the same.

Me knowing I liked girls aged eleven is not the same as me having a fully formed concept of what kind of sex I wanted to have and with whom and under what circumstances, nor is it the same as me feeling pressured to announce it to the world like "here I am, as a female child and therefore commodity, thus is exactly what flavour of sex object I am and here is some insight into my desires".

I don't think we should normalise coming out as children. I did, it was grim. But I'm very butch and very obvious. Would life have been easier if I'd claimed to be asexual and then come out as a lesbian in adulthood? Definitely. But even old school identities like lesbian or bisexual are seen as something that must be proclaimed loudly all over social media. Children are told that they absolutely must come out, they must share this information, and that they're shamed or repressed or that they're damaging things for others if they don't.

I don't even think adults should come out, or be outed, if they don't want to. With exceptions for hypocritical homophobes in positions of power who (for example) pass laws against homosexuals despite being gay themselves - but that's a tiny fraction of people.

Does sexuality have to be private? No, but it should be an option!

And given my early posts were to reassure OP that her son having his friend say that was extremely unlikely to actually mean that his friend had the understanding knowledge etc of a young adult or adult. And would be at risk of sexual coercion because he said this.

I wanted to reassure. I have given examples of the situation with this with my dd1 late primary and at secondary now.

I hoped to make OP and others who felt the same a bit less worried because it's a widespread thing and for most children it doesn't mean anything.

When something worries me esp about my kids or their closer friends reassurance with a sound basis v is welcome. The reaction has thrown me a bit. All the stuff about children, burgeoning sexuality and naivety/ innocence,. Things from the past that were being ignored totally, rewritten, when to say oh yes forgot that would be very reassuring.

All that stuff in the middle about sleepovers and private schools. I tried to help the poster about the bullying. I can't remember anyone else about that. Why no support? It sounded awful.

Anyway. Interesting for me tbh.

The point is many people don't particularly need or want to see OTT displays and we need to be careful not to enter ridiculous territory of excusing behaviour that's not appropriate for the time.or place or age because it's homphobic when in fact it wouldn't be appropriate fir anyone. The idea certain groups of people need to he able to act in such ways unchallenged is actually the homophobia.

Like dressing in rubber or pvc and knocking one out whilst filming yourself in the staff toilets at a children's charity. Everyone who thought that was disgusting was called homophobic. It's a nonsense.

And given my early posts were to reassure OP that her son having his friend say that was extremely unlikely to actually mean that his friend had the understanding knowledge etc of a young adult or adult. And would be at risk of sexual coercion because he said this.

I wanted to reassure.

Yes and people disagreed with you. It's allowed. You can still think it's harmless while other posters worry that it's not.

I think the whole sexuality is private was a misspeaking of sexuality is personal. The two are very close synonyms but not quite the same. Private meaning keep it to yourself, personal meaning it’s nobody’s business but your own. I think when you are using a single usage of a single word to support your argument, you do need to give that single word a little wiggle room.

Good point

Hmmmm...my daughter is a lesbian, well she was, at the moment she is deciding whether in fact she is trans and pansexual.

She was bullied at school from year 7 for being homosexual, I don't know why, but she was. When I discussed it with her, I told her that IMHO it's really hard to understand your sexuality as a teen, due to hormones and pressure. I advised her against the need to definitively label herself and wait until she actually experienced sexual attraction to decide.

At age 13/14 she had her first girlfriend, it was very private as they were both new to it. It didn't end well, lots of shame unfortunately, once it was more widely known. Now both have stated they may be transmen.

Until a child, independently from adult input, chosen to act on a sexual attraction, or identifies it, I do not believe that it is healthy for them to declare anything publicly.

Once she had sought out a female partner, she has some knowledge now, but is her exploration done?

Boxes and labels should not be held up as progressive. Children need to be able to explore and choose privately, without pressure. There are no benefits to early declaration IMHO.

Thank you for posting, I agree with you broadly.

It's a long thread. I've been on it from start. There are a lot of posts that are not considered nuanced etc. But assertions about what things were like when it came to being exposed to stuff to do with sex/ sexuality, and what they may have known or felt themselves when puberty gets going.

The GM lyrics I posted earlier. Not so much raunchy. He says he would rape if not illegal. The whole song the lyrics are coercion.

'Wanna take you, wanna make you
But they tell me it's a crime
Oh, everybody knows where the good people go
But where we're going baby, ain't no such word as no'

'Your friends do not have to know'

'I'll make you happy with the one thing that you never had'

I mean FFS! Raunchy? Fucking grim! All the little girls singing it happily. I always thought the make you bit was ??? but you know. Big hit. So, must be ok way to think?

I mentioned fgth, hiv aids public info all time use condoms everyone knew m/mb most at risk.

And on and on.

YES it's worse now. I have commented on that at length iirc.

Why it's outrageous to point out the picture painted by many on this thread is just miles away from how it was? Especially given my posts were all to say well this and this and this. To try and reassure.

Yes obv loads of massive issues with so much around gender/ sexuality identity etc. Yes especially for children in so many ways.

But when it comes to your children/ their good friends. One saying they're omnisexual or greygender etc is very unlikely indeed to actually mean anything at all. If no indication there are problems. Which is good, surely.

'Until a child, independently from adult input, chosen to act on a sexual attraction, or identifies it, I do not believe that it is healthy for them to declare anything publicly.'

What are girls this age doing when they obsess over male pop stars etc? That's seen as normal. I know you're talking about labels but fact is that all children are essentially labelled straight unless say otherwise. And 'liking' opposite sex people is totally unremarkable.

That's the sort of differential, and I think it's important.

Not all children do obsess though. Not all children outwardly display any preferences.

I only have 2 teenagers, one of each sex and neither have these types of crushes.

Perhaps I have gone wrong somewhere

What are girls this age doing when they obsess over male pop stars etc? That's seen as normal. I know you're talking about labels but fact is that all children are essentially labelled straight unless say otherwise. And 'liking' opposite sex people is totally unremarkable.

We're talking about an eleven year old calling themselves omnisexual ffs. And I've had enough song lyrics, I've got the song stuck in my bloody head now.

Also, it doesn't bloody matter if kids are assumed to be straight, so long as they aren't harmed.
Especially aged eleven. Why come out aged eleven? Who is that information even for? What is it used for? Why is it necessary? Who even benefits? Does the child have a better time? I didn't.

What on earth does it have to do with adults getting their heads kicked in by strangers for holding hands with a same sex partner anyway? What's the proclamation of a child going to do to solve that?

Sorry for essays.

Just realised that in short.

Children have not changed. The idea that being interested in sex (in theory not in practice), fancying people (in very innocent way), is not new IE starting to get to grips with own sexuality etc etc is NOT new.

The massive problem is the adults who are exploiting, hooking into that burgeoning interest. To push things, for their own purposes, that are about adult sexuality, niche practices, awful messages. IE extreme mysogynistic porn at touch of button, fetishes, niche sexual preferences as standard, using vanilla as an insult (instead of pride), and presenting same sex attraction as wrong, well so so much.

They can do this because of the fact that children when puberty/ hormones get going it's always been the case that sex and sexuality are very very interesting.

The argument about the current situation can be easily made and is better made without focusing on idealised notions about children in the past.

I don't know if any of this will help explain where I'm coming from.

Chickenyhead I hope your daughter is OK. Unfortunately one of her biggest problems is always going to be about logistics. Finding other lesbians, finding enough of them to actually be able to choose a partner and not end up in a mismatched relationship by default, or worse staying in a bad relationship because the thought of looking for a replacement puts her off leaving! It really is a problem.

'Also, it doesn't bloody matter if kids are assumed to be straight, so long as they aren't harmed.'

They have always been harmed especially girls. By older boys/men exploiting their burgeoning interest.

Grooming, coercing, badgering for pics, celebrities getting hold of underage girls who fancy them, so so much.