Pronouns in an email display name has made me...

[Chilver]

..irrationally angry. I have just received an email from someone in HR and the email in my inbox shows as 'surname (he/him), first name (department)'. Their accompanying photo (only seen by internal people) is visibly male.

It has made me irrationally angry but I'm not entirely sure why. I feel that the display name saying '(he/him)' is just forcing male oppression onto me; that its telling me to 'be kind'; that's its telling me to 'know my place; and that place is behind men in all circumstances'; I'm just.... angry.

I've tried to think how I would feel if it was 'she/her' was displayed and whether that would change my feelings - it probably would I think but again, not sure why.

Any clever Mumsnetters who can help me understand my own feelings about why I feel so angry about this?

I am in a position where I can, gently, comment on this at the right time to another senior member of HR but I feel I need my feelings in check and my reasonings clear.

Don’t comment. Don’t be angry. Just use it as a signal to be very careful round this person. Nice of him to add a flag so you know he is naive or dangerous.

Because you know that being male means privilege so he’s flaunting his privilege. It’s an act of dominance. If it was a woman putting she/her they would be signalling submission so of course you would react differently.

For a man to put pronouns in the workplace they either need to not know about the evidence that constantly reinforces both discrimination and stereotype threat, or they need to know but not care.

I had an email recently from a HUGE government department who if they don't know what sex a person is we're totally fucked.

And it gave me the rage! This department is in charge of some serious shit and they don't know a persons sex without pronouns

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh

Sorry no help. Hahaha

Dick swinging - comes across as him telling you very loudly, even though you didn’t ask, that he is male, man, top of the pile and don’t you forget it. No wonder you feel angry. I don’t think your response is irrational at all.

I've had a couple of those recently. It's quite helpful as they are signalling what type of person I am dealing with and I can adopt my approach and response to them accordingly. I didn't need to wait to find out.

Agree with pps - it's useful information, but not in the way the sender thinks.

My work is asking everyone to put their pronouns on their emails, has there been any company memo about it? Is the rest of HR doing it? (Could it be a departmental thing?).

Every department at my work has a very uniform email signature for every department. Was the decision to add “he/him” his?

Having male pronouns are no different to having a male name. If anything I'd feel a little safer around him knowing he shares his pronouns so others feel more comfortable sharing theirs.

I was scouting around recently for female charities to give large donations to. One response came was pronouns and was struck off the list immediately. Makes me shudder.

It’s a useful red flag. It’s being increasingly encouraged where I work but there’s enough pushback that they haven’t made it compulsory.

Gender bias in the workplace is a big issue and the declaration of pronouns reinforces the problem.

At work we've all been asked to put our preferred pronouns on our email signature. I'm a teacher. Everybody seems to have done it him/his/he she/her/hers etc.

As someone who teaches in a university, this is VERY NORMAL, many undergrads get very angry if you call them she as they see themselves as non-binary (They/Them) And it's just an observation as this seems more popular with biological female students, but we have a fair few biological male students who do not want he/him.

I was directed to put (He/Him) in my Zoom profile and work emails, simply because the whole thing is getting very tricky, so it sets an all inclusive field ( gender wise)

I have my picture in Outlook, a bloke with a beard. Nothing to do with male dominance, in fact the opposite as I see it. More to do with those who do not want to be labelled She or He but They.

so it sets an all inclusive field ( gender wise)

No, it doesn't. It has a chilling effect on women (and others) who don't believe in genderism. Often they are feminists who understand gender as a harmful construct used to dominate women.

I have my picture in Outlook, a bloke with a beard. Nothing to do with male dominance, in fact the opposite as I see it.

So, the key phrase here is "as I see it". Of course you don't see any issues. It doesn't and won't affect you, as a man. It is a luxury belief for you, an "easy win" to gain praise from the loudest activists for your apparent inclusiveness. You have no awareness or concern for the effect it has on women who see the issues and are affected by gender ideology.

Pronoun declarations signal that the person I’m talking to believes men and women have different minds/personalities.

Since (1) belief that the sexes have innately gendered minds which make them suitable for different social roles long been used as the justification for preventing women having equal social, political and economic power to men or taking full part in society, and (2) I am a woman (or at least, I am female and not trans) and therefore they are telling me that they believe my mind exhibits this innate womanyness, whatever it is, and therefore they will from time to time make assumptions about me based on what they believe about my womanny mind rather than my actual capabilities or personality.

Therefore, I find myself a little miffed by people who sign up to it.

I've just had an email from my dds dance company which has added pro nouns in the last week. I sighed inwardly

@Chilver

..irrationally angry. I have just received an email from someone in HR and the email in my inbox shows as 'surname (he/him), first name (department)'. Their accompanying photo (only seen by internal people) is visibly male.

It has made me irrationally angry but I'm not entirely sure why. I feel that the display name saying '(he/him)' is just forcing male oppression onto me; that its telling me to 'be kind'; that's its telling me to 'know my place; and that place is behind men in all circumstances'; I'm just.... angry.

I've tried to think how I would feel if it was 'she/her' was displayed and whether that would change my feelings - it probably would I think but again, not sure why.

Any clever Mumsnetters who can help me understand my own feelings about why I feel so angry about this?

I am in a position where I can, gently, comment on this at the right time to another senior member of HR but I feel I need my feelings in check and my reasonings clear.

TBF it's not just men who are doing the pronoun thing. And I should think most are doing it as a signal that they are trans 'allies'. I mean, if only men at your company did it, sure, it might be about male oppression; but is it only men? Is it a company policy?

To be clear, I am definitely gender critical, and don't and wouldn't have pronouns on my own correspondence.

What @Blibbyblobby said.

I may start using it/its, and add also that offence will be taken to any stray or incorrectly used apostrophes. I wonder how many people would actually have the courage to refer to me as “it”.

When it was suggested at work, and people started to do it, I was tempted to go all Father Ted-
Maireas
arse/feck/drink

@Maireas

When it was suggested at work, and people started to do it, I was tempted to go all Father Ted- Maireas arse/feck/drink

Announcing pronouns especially when you're not asked and in a work environment is a political statement.
One that says "I am a fully initiated gender ideologist".

It's right to be concerned both by this individual and what else is going on in the work environment, when we all know what problems come along with the ideology.

@AssassinatedBeauty

so it sets an all inclusive field ( gender wise)

No, it doesn't. It has a chilling effect on women (and others) who don't believe in genderism. Often they are feminists who understand gender as a harmful construct used to dominate women.

I have my picture in Outlook, a bloke with a beard. Nothing to do with male dominance, in fact the opposite as I see it.

So, the key phrase here is "as I see it". Of course you don't see any issues. It doesn't and won't affect you, as a man. It is a luxury belief for you, an "easy win" to gain praise from the loudest activists for your apparent inclusiveness. You have no awareness or concern for the effect it has on women who see the issues and are affected by gender ideology.

"so it sets an all inclusive field ( gender wise)"

That's the party line, if eliminates discrimination between students who are NON BINARY.

"I have my picture in Outlook, a bloke with a beard. Nothing to do with male dominance, in fact the opposite as I see it."

Completely agree, that's why I said, 'as I see it'. I would venture I have an awareness as someone with a PhD in Humanities and studied gender and feminism at advance degree level, but I won't argue your point, I'm a straight man, what do I know.

I was simply pointing out if you do receive an email from a man with (he/him) the reason could be the same as me, his boss told him to do it.

The world’s gone mad.
But then I’m an oldie so all this nonsense drives me bonkers anyway.

I also think it’s a useful indicator within your company of who to tread carefully with if your aren’t compelled to use them.

Do challenge company wide use at higher levels though.

And consider using Another/Which if pressed.

I was simply pointing out if you do receive an email from a man with (he/him) the reason could be the same as me, his boss told him to do it.

Yes. This is not news to women, especially those posting here. What we are saying is that this kind of knee jerk, unthinking action is not good enough and is damaging to women.