Pronouns in an email display name has made me...

[Chilver]

..irrationally angry. I have just received an email from someone in HR and the email in my inbox shows as 'surname (he/him), first name (department)'. Their accompanying photo (only seen by internal people) is visibly male.

It has made me irrationally angry but I'm not entirely sure why. I feel that the display name saying '(he/him)' is just forcing male oppression onto me; that its telling me to 'be kind'; that's its telling me to 'know my place; and that place is behind men in all circumstances'; I'm just.... angry.

I've tried to think how I would feel if it was 'she/her' was displayed and whether that would change my feelings - it probably would I think but again, not sure why.

Any clever Mumsnetters who can help me understand my own feelings about why I feel so angry about this?

I am in a position where I can, gently, comment on this at the right time to another senior member of HR but I feel I need my feelings in check and my reasonings clear.

@bordermidgebite

What on earth do you mean by one sex has to do the work ?

I suspect it involves being pregnant and giving birth.

[quote ImFluidLikeWater]@Blibbyblobby I am not a woman. I am uncomfortable with my body bc it is a "woman's body". It doesn't look like the body I want. I am also not a trans woman. Trans woman is someone who was assigned male at birth and has transitioned to female, so I'm closer to a trans male than trans female even though I'm neither (easy mistake to make tho just fyi)[/quote]
No, I understand that you are not a woman based on the word "woman" as you understand it. My apologies if that was not clear.

I absolutely did not intend to misgender you.

I was trying to show that the lannguage has been changed in a specific way to express trans identities, but could have been changed in a different way which could still express trans identities but would not have such a devastating impact on female people's rights, by keeping "woman" to mean nothing more than a body type (which its owner might love or hate) and creating new words to express the feeling of gender fit within that body.

And also to show that while your explanation of "cis" seems reasonable on the surface and I could recognise myself in it, it still only works for me if "woman" is a body type. So as soon as you say that you are female bodied but not a woman, it bundles a whole load of other stuff into that concept of "cis" which I am really not ok with and I do not recognise myself in. That is why I currently reject "cis womsn", because it does mean more than just "female and ok with the sex of my body", it also means "has a magic womanny thing shared by cis women and trans women" and since a trans woman by definition does not have a female body, suddenly "cis woman" is saying something way way way more than just "female and ok with the sex of my body".

@Chickenyhead

I am not legally required to 'support' anyone at all.

I am not required to follow Islam and pray to Allah.

I am not required to believe that the earth is flat and there be monsters.

I am not required to believe conspiracy theories or things that anti-vaxxers say.

I am not required to believe in gender ideology and that transwomen are women.

None of these things are objective facts. They are all beliefs that others have, that I do not share.

I am not required to share any of them, or go out of my way to support them. That is not phobic. It is freedom from forced beliefs. It is a human right. You may wish to read the human rights act.

I do not hate trans people. I simply have no interest in participating in something I do not believe in and that I consider harmful.

When genderists throw about insults and transphobe accusations, they do it to look like the victim. You are not a victim. You came here to discuss. We discussed. Now you are angry.

All the likes.

All the upvotes.

All the clap clap claps.

Thank you flying

Blibbyblobby - thank you. O

I dress exactly like you one "a day when I am feeling masculine" - I am typing this while I am wearing a hoodie, tracksuit bottom and trainers. This is how I dress every. single. day. I never wear dresses or skirts because a) I'm a feminist and have come to see them negatively on that basis, but that is just me and, more importantly to me b) I am short and have fat calves and look hideous in them.

There is literally no difference between the way I look every day and the way you look on a day when your gender fluidity feelings are telling you you want to look more conventionally masculine because that will make you feel comfortable. I doubt anyone could tell us apart except I am probably older. I hate my breasts and, on dark days, have wished for breast cancer so I could have a free breast reduction - unlike trans people, this would cost me 10K. Ok, maybe I'm lucky because I work in IT where people generally aren't that bothered about appearance and I am able to look, and act pretty much, for all intents and purposes like a bloke.

But I am female. I am a woman. I wouldn't say I'm happy about it as such as, frankly, woman is the shitty end of the stick on planet Earth imo, but that's where we are. But I still have periods and PMT and wouldn't have given up having my children for the world.

Why/how are you genderfluid and I am a woman?

@ImFluidLikeWater

I'm not escaping being female. I explored my gender identity and found the one that makes me the most confident and comfortable. It's... not that hard to understand the difference??

I know you say it isn't hard to understand but I honestly have absolutely no idea what gender I would be, if I had one. I know that if being a woman is what TW project, then I am not a woman gender.

I am a mixture of masculine and feminine, I have a woman's body and have done things with it only women can do. I have many experiences in common with women bodied people and very little in common with TW whatsoever.

I only know what it feels like to be me. I have absolutely no concept of how other people experience 'gender'. Therefore I have no point of reference to place myself in this spectrum.

It isnt being awkward, I just don't feel it and cannot imagine feeling it.

I despised my body until my late 20s, due to CSA and abuse. I hated everything about it. But it was still who I am. I hated myself.

This was quite typical when I was young. We often look back at pictures of old and think how nice we looked, knowing that we hated ourselves.

I'm sorry, but it really isn't simple to identify out of reality for many of us.

@Chickenyhead

So the name calling begins.

Despite these views being legal.

So much hate.

Sad.

And there I was waiting for clownfish 🤷🏼‍♀️

No full house tonight, yet.

[quote ImFluidLikeWater]@TheCountessofFitzdotterel that's bc you're missing the point: I wear the clothes that make me feel the most comfortable. If building a shelf makes you feel uncomfortable bc it makes your hand hurt you don't continue building the shelf? It works the same way.[/quote]
So why did you say it was because you feel female/male then if it was nothing to do with that?

I am not missing the point. You are not being consistent.

Alright, I guess it's time to go our separate ways bc we're not gonna see eye to eye any time soon. That's what happens when both parties are stubborn, but eh, it happens. We all have our opinions. Also I'm bored and have other things to do lol

Is lol

Lots of love or
Laugh out loud
Or something else

What a surprise.

They never explain.

I think they tried

I've gone away, watched some telly, had a long phone call with my daughter, eaten a mini Magnum, made a pot of tea and now Imfluid has gone? And (s)he didn't even explain to me why wearing jeans and putting up a shelf makes me a bloke or not, I'm sooo confused.....

Incidentally, I love being a woman, even the "shitty" bits.... :)

@bordermidgebite

I think they tried

Do you understand it now?

How do I identify which gender?

I wear the clothes that make me feel the most comfortable. If building a shelf makes you feel uncomfortable bc it makes your hand hurt you don't continue building the shelf? It works the same way

Who has the luxury of starting to build a shelf and then walking away from the task because they're not loving it any more?

Do you just have half-finished shelves lying around or is someone stepping in to finish the tasks you start and then don't feel comfortable finishing?

I'm seeing this more and more and it is rage inducing

@ArtemesiaK

I've gone away, watched some telly, had a long phone call with my daughter, eaten a mini Magnum, made a pot of tea and now Imfluid has gone? And (s)he didn't even explain to me why wearing jeans and putting up a shelf makes me a bloke or not, I'm sooo confused.....

Magnum? I am drooling

Funny thing, the shelf thing makes me soooo working class. If it makes my hand hurt I just ignore it or get gloves 🤷🏼‍♀️

I sort of understand it

But I don't buy it , I think it's the wrong way to try and solve a very real problem

You are probably male according to the theory ( if I remember your previous posts correctly which is tricky )

You're right, I think I would be either agender or non-binary, femboy, demi- romantic (whatever that means)

Putting up shelves has never made my hands hurt! :) It's easier than hanging around waiting for a bloke to do it!.......

But come on now , don't you feel such huge relief coming out like that ?
Abs how hard is your life when people are just so hateful to you ?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

My pronouns shall be gin/vodka/cake

I just really have a disconnect in my brain where my gender 'should' be. 😭😭😭

I try to understand, but all I see are stereotypes. But they keep saying no, it's not that. So I just end up feeling stupid.