Does anyone else feel that the tone has changed on this board?

[ViceLikeBlip]

This board has been incredibly important to me, especially when I felt like I was losing my mind because no one else seemed to see a problem with self ID, and everyone else seemed to believe TWAW (or, I now realise, everyone else was too scared to suggest they might not believe TWAW).

You guys helped me rationalise my thoughts, and realise I wasn't some awful transphobe, and I've been really grateful to be part of this community. And I really felt like I belonged: we were pro women's rights, not anti trans rights, and we didn't believe that all transwomen are dangerous perverts but rather we recognised that dangerous perverts do exist, and they will readily take advtange of any loophole that gives them access to women.

More than anything, you guys have been an absolute mine of information - facts, stats, latest developments, and you've pointed me in the direction of news articles and twitter rows that I never would have seen otherwise. I'm genuinely grateful for this.

But recently the mood seems to have shifted significantly. There seems to be a lot of open animosity and ridicule towards all things trans. The recent outcry about M&S letting some people put their pronouns on their name badges felt uncomfortably close to clamouring to have M&S "cancelled".

I guess I used to feel like this was a safe space where I was with like minded people, but now I don't think everyone on here can hand-on-heart maintain that they're not anti-trans anymore, and it makes me very upset to see this shift happening (and happening quickly).

[quote Waitwhat23]@NotBadConsidering superb post. I am always in awe of the knowledge and intelligence of the regular posters here.[/quote]
Me too. It can be a real comfort to find such an array of sensible Granny Weatherwax-types (and I mean that as a true compliment) who are so knowledgeable and articulate.

I've been a lesbian for a number of decades meself. and I'm not sure I've fully qualified yet.

Floral, like they say. "Keep practicing". You will get there one day.

Repent Motherfucker - I love that you remembered being a lesbian exactly five times, but I wont be rude enough to enquire how you qualified!
Should there be a special exam you have to pass to be a lesbian and then you get a certificate?

@Helleofabore

Sorry.... that should be 'are you heteroflexible', shouldn't it?

Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Heteroflexible Party

Well, quite Arabella. I realize that I am quite confused about heterosexual. Because some definition seem to imply it is an ‘experimental’ phase … but does that mean it is a permanent label???

FWIW, I think maybe julieca is, rather than rude, a little socially awkward.

@ArabellaScott

Just clarifying are you two discussing The Heteroflexible party or A heteroflexible party?

Wasn’t sure if it was a typo and I don’t want to be ridiculed for telling the wrong anecdote. I hear ridicule is quite unpleasant

@LobsterNapkin

FWIW, I think maybe julieca is, rather than rude, a little socially awkward.

I’m a lot socially awkward, I’m not sold that’s any reason to ask how long someone’s been a lesbian or not say fuck sorry I didn’t realise that sounded so dickheady when made aware of it.

You know BloodinGutters, I can’t speak for Arabella. She seems mostly straight with me, but sometimes….

I guess she might prefer to party more than have membership to a Party.

Ain't no party like a heteroflexible party!

Oh now we absolutely have to fill the rest of this thread up with a flexible party.

@ArabellaScott

Ain't no party like a heteroflexible party!

He he! flight of the Conchords?

@foxgoosefinch

Oh now we absolutely have to fill the rest of this thread up with a flexible party.

Does this flexible party require physical flexibility? Like yoga?

Because if so I have eds, so am very very flexible. In downward dog I can get my elbows on the ground despite long legs!

That’s got to win a better prize than MN bingo right? Right??

@ArabellaScott

Ain't no party like a heteroflexible party!

This sounds like the kind of party that involves being flexible enough to stick your foot in your ear. But presumably in the properly hetero certified way.

@Artichokeleaves

I can stick both feet behind my ears.

Where do I collect this certificate you speak of?

Come on, now ladies. First one to get a 180 can apply to the Board for certification.

[quote BloodinGutters]@Artichokeleaves

I can stick both feet behind my ears.

Where do I collect this certificate you speak of?[/quote]
Yes but can you hetero properly and have you passed a proficiency check??

I’m a lot socially awkward, I’m not sold that’s any reason to ask how long someone’s been a lesbian or not say fuck sorry I didn’t realise that sounded so dickheady when made aware of it.

There are a lot of different kinds of socially awkward, and she did actually say that she hadn't intended to be offensive. If you take the view that someone might have become a lesbian late in life - and there are certainly people for whom that is the case - it might have seemed a reasonable explanation for person not knowing something you assumed was well-established. Notwithstanding that it's the wrong end of the stick.

@Artichokeleaves

Hmmm

That’s a complicated question.

I would say yes to the properly, however no proficiency check.

I was about to say I’ll ask dh later, but then he’ll probably ask for a refresher.

And I’m tired. And sick. And can’t be fucked

@LobsterNapkin

I’m a lot socially awkward, I’m not sold that’s any reason to ask how long someone’s been a lesbian or not say fuck sorry I didn’t realise that sounded so dickheady when made aware of it.

There are a lot of different kinds of socially awkward, and she did actually say that she hadn't intended to be offensive. If you take the view that someone might have become a lesbian late in life - and there are certainly people for whom that is the case - it might have seemed a reasonable explanation for person not knowing something you assumed was well-established. Notwithstanding that it's the wrong end of the stick.

Fair enough. I normally consider ‘I didn’t mean to offend’ as a fake apology/way of squirming out of any apology, but I appreciate that might be perception.

[quote BloodinGutters]@Artichokeleaves

Hmmm

That’s a complicated question.

I would say yes to the properly, however no proficiency check.

I was about to say I’ll ask dh later, but then he’ll probably ask for a refresher.

And I’m tired. And sick. And can’t be fucked [/quote]

Thanks for a fascinating thread.

A friend cares for an old lady who shared a newspaper clipping about Kathleen Stock and they both struggled to see how the content of what KS said was 'transphobic' so she wanted to run it past me.

"We thought that what she says just seems like what most people believe." Yep.

"It's so entitled to think that because you are paying for a course you shouldn't hear anything you disagree with." Yep.

"Did you see that guy who was doing the weightlifting in the Women’s Olympics, that's not fair, is it?" Nope.

Her ex is going through a mid life crisis of sorts which has also included some gender dabbling/happy with any pronouns. "He's just a confused narcissistic bloke who thinks wearing nail varnish and makeup means anything. I'm glad I'm not with him any more. It's so tough on the kids because it's all about him" Yep.

Turns out she has more 'extreme' views than Kathleen Stock - who, by signing the The Declaration on Women's Sex-Based Rights (which re-affirms women and girls' sex-based rights, and challenges the discrimination we experience from the replacement of the category of sex with that of ‘gender identity) www.womensdeclaration.com
has, apparently, according to some trans people, been promoting genocide.

ANewCreation, but most normal people (as in not aware of the issues) are much more extreme than most women here. They just haven’t thought through the issues.

I think the recent media spotlight has opened up a floodgate. It actually makes me a bit worried about transsexuals. On this board, we are aware of the issues, the various voices within the trans community and how the violent minority isn’t representative.

Most posters here are perfectly happy to live and let live, couldn’t care less about clothes and body modifications and are fiercely against discrimination in the work place. The red line is single sex spaces and transitioning children.

I don’t think middle England will be as tolerant when the extent of what has happened (rape centres, sex abusers with penises in women’s prisons and hospital wards, lobbying, etc) becomes widely known.

They will look for more information and come across the vocal and abusive minority on social media. And will find the rape threats, the photos in shelters, the lesbian dating apps etc. And the the backlash will be bad.

And the the backlash will be bad.

Aye, this is it. FWR is still basically liberal leftyville. If you think we're the frothing reactionaries, you really are a sweet summer child. I make light of it, but I honestly worry whenever I go out now. As I like to say, thanks Genderists! You're bringing back open homophobia, one defence of rapist hill at a time.

It will be noted though unfortunately when the unpleasant behaviour was happening no one spoke out against it and if they did they were monstered.

I'm afraid I agree with a PP. It wasn't the people chalking penises on the pavements who have been running Stonewall and creating the situations the BBC et al now find themselves in.