Pronouns

[VelvetChairGirl]

Am I the only one who instantly judges those who state their pronouns as a massive narcissist?

especially if those pronouns are things you would never use when talking to someone, like they/them, who the hell refers to the person they are talking to as they/them, that doesn't work in English you cant use third person pronouns in the first person thats not how the language works.

Its trying to make you second guess everything and tread on eggshells, like a control thing to me, the idea alone that you are going to memorize everyone's individual pronouns for use whenever you see them individually is narcissistic, like you haven't got tonnes of other people you talk to.

I’m told some people don’t have any choice but to add them to e-mails, so I might give some benefit of the doubt… but in general yes.

I judge yes.

I tend to think ‘unthinking virtue signaller’ rather than narcissist.

I have mixed feelings about it. "Massive narcissist" is a bit on the strong side for me, but I'd definitely view them as either pathetically woke, eager to appear holier than thou, and also a bit of a plonker. That's if they're not trans themselves of course.

If the person is trans, I'd still think putting your pronouns on your email signature is a bit attention seeking and not necessarily, because everyone's gunna bloody know your trans pronouns already aren't they.

Yes, you're the only one.

No, obvs you aren't, I tend to switch off to them as much as possible.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

I tend to think ‘unthinking virtue signaller’ rather than narcissist.

I agree.

I think some people are well meaning and others are absolute dicks.

Identity focussed, specifically theirs (read: narcissist) OR absolutely mentally hostage to 'being kind'.

especially if those pronouns are things you would never use when talking to someone, like they/them, who the hell refers to the person they are talking to as they/them, that doesn't work in English you cant use third person pronouns in the first person thats not how the language works.

They as a singular pronoun is older than he/she, and it's absolutely fine to use. Keep up with the times!

https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

I substantially reduce my interaction with people who have pronouns in their email sig file.

I don't trust people who adopt compelled speech. I don't trust people who embrace steps to thought totalism or authoritarianism.

For me, this is because most of the people I interact with are in organisations that should be resolutely impartial and for me pronouns signal allegiance to a political ideology.

Broadly speaking yes.

Quite simply, the failure to see that their demand for "courtesy" for themselves is extremely discourteous to me is a massive red flag of egocentrism.

Identify ideology is a belief and pronoun politics is simply an extension of that.

People who subscribe to this to are free to believe what they wish. In exactly the same way people have faith in God as represented by many religions.

However, just as I am (as an atheist) very happy to spend time with my lovely devout Catholic PIL, I will not go to church with them or pray before dinner, just as I would not buy into or practice any aspect of identity ideology.

Having a belief is fine, but you don't get to impose it on others under the guise of expecting people to be polite to you, whilst simultaneously being rude to them by disrespecting their adherence to facts and science.

I can’t stand it…but the only two people who do this at my work are also the two least narcissistic kindest gentlest souls in the organisation in an organisation with a lot of kind people so I have to disagree.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

I tend to think ‘unthinking virtue signaller’ rather than narcissist.

This.

@whitehorsesdonotlie

especially if those pronouns are things you would never use when talking to someone, like they/them, who the hell refers to the person they are talking to as they/them, that doesn't work in English you cant use third person pronouns in the first person thats not how the language works.

They as a singular pronoun is older than he/she, and it's absolutely fine to use. Keep up with the times!

[[https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they]]/

If I am talking to you I am not going to call you they thats just odd

I judge.

And I nominated a manager from work to receive a copy of Trans via Sex Matters because he was using pronouns in an email (he seems to have stopped now).

I unfollow anyone on social media who has pronouns after their name.

But the ones I find really odd are the ones who put (she/they) or (he/them) because I don't get that at all. Why not her and him if you are having she and he?

Op, you misunderstand. You'd call Bob 'you' if you were talking directly to him, but 'they' if you were talking about Bob, if Bob's pronouns were 'they'.

@Wormsarecool

I can’t stand it…but the only two people who do this at my work are also the two least narcissistic kindest gentlest souls in the organisation in an organisation with a lot of kind people so I have to disagree.

I'm sure they think they are being kind but the fact is, they are simultaneously being unkind to the many people who don't subscribe to identity ideology and assisting in creating an environment where it's not only pervasive but places a target on the back of those who desist.

There are as a pp has said, broadly two groups. People who seek to assert identity ideology through pronoun demands/declarations and those who have bought into the bullshit that doing so is the "kind/right side of history" thing to do.

The latter IME simply have not fully considered the implications of what they are buying into when they signal their unthinking adherence to pronoun politics.

In the workplace, in what other context would it be deemed acceptable or appropriate to use your email signature as a political/ideological statement?

Adding what political party you voted for? Where you stood on Brexit? Your opinion on Scottish Independence? Your religion?

I used to judge people for it, but in the current cultural climate, I feel there's just as much chance that they've been pressured into stating their pronouns by HR or their colleagues, or have been shamed into compliance by their peers outside of work.

So it's no longer a reliable indicator that the individual has entered into the practice freely and willingly.

Many are likely terrified of the consequences of refusal, seeing all the witch-burning going on around them.

They as a singular pronoun is older than he/she, and it's absolutely fine to use. Keep up with the times!

I don't really have a problem with singular they, but that OED article isn't proof of anything.*
"Each man hurried . . . till they drew near" is clearly talking about multiple men, not a single man. The 'they' is describing men, not man. It's slightly odd usage, but that's it. If it said "The man hurried ... till they drew near" there might be a point.

*There may well be examples somewhere. I've seen Shakespeare use 'they' in a similar way to the quote above, and I've heard that Chaucer used singular 'they', though I've never been able to find an example. Either way, this isn't it.

especially if those pronouns are things you would never use when talking to someone

Well obviously none of the pronouns people state on their email signatures etc are what you'd use when talking to them. Nobody puts 'you' as their stated pronoun- there would be no point, because literally everyone is 'you' when you're addressing them.

I agree with pp - they won't all be 'massive narcissists' - some are well-meaning and trying to be supportive and kind. I'm absolutely against compulsory pronoun-adding, and yes I roll my eyes a bit when I see it.

@Wormsarecool

I can’t stand it…but the only two people who do this at my work are also the two least narcissistic kindest gentlest souls in the organisation in an organisation with a lot of kind people so I have to disagree.

Yes same here. Some lovely people at my work have added them. So I'm trying to make sure I stay open minded - I guess I don't mind if others want to add pronouns, as long as it remains optional not compulsory or expected. After all, one thing I am in favour of is freedom of speech and freedom of expression!

I just think "mindless".

And carry on with my day.

alias

I think (though I’m happy to be proved wrong) that singular they isn’t allowed in gcse english

It can be used as singular in certain circumstances but not as it seems to be used now

(Im only directing this post to you cos you sound like you know what you are talking about 😀)

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

I tend to think ‘unthinking virtue signaller’ rather than narcissist.

This. I assume they’re young and or not a critical thinker. Very few do it through a genuine sense of allieship. Certainly not from a place of understanding what they’re signalling.

Each man hurried . . . till they drew near" is clearly talking about multiple men, not a single man. The 'they' is describing men, not man.

No, 'they' in that sentence us describing 'each man' so it's singular, @aliasundercover.