Man in women's loos - did o overreact?

[MakeTeaNotWar]

Went to a live music venue last night. In a very woke seaside town on the south coast for context. At the end of the night, I popped to the loo before leaving for home. As so often happens, the queue for ladies was lengthy, no real queue for the gents.

I joined the queue and noticed the person in front of me wasn't a man just keeping his partner company while she waited as I first thought, but a man waiting to use the toilet. He was not a trans woman, he was a man and a drunk one at that.

I told him he was in the wrong queue and pointed to the gents. He said he wanted to use these toilets. I asked why, he said they are gender neutral so he can. (I don't know if they are - they probably are as they had a multitude of arrows on the door.)

I said I am a woman needing to use the woman's facilities and I would do so, ahead of him.

The queue of women turned on me and said I couldn't block him, repeating these are gender neutral toilets. I said I cannot use a urinal and indeed went in front of him to use the loo first. When I had finished, I called the woman behind him to come forward and use the loo, which she did.

The other women very cross with me for blocking him and asserted he was perfectly entitled to use these toilets.

Did I do the wrong thing? I've thought about contacting the venue to understand what their loo provision is and asking was it right to have a man in the ladies (or are they gender neutral? Can anyone use the "gents")?

Thanks for reading long post

@Cailleach1

So, the men's cannot be gender neutral as there are men pissing in the open, in urinals. Rip them all out and make the area into cubicles, if they are being inclusive. It is not inclusive for women to have to look at men with their penis out, urinating.

They must be taking the piss if they are saying that the men's is the men's with no adaptions, yet the women have to be for all and sundry. Yet, with no more facilities. And yes, I think any guy who deliberately increases the queue for women in an already reduced amount of facilities is a rotter. At best, he is only a rotter.

If men are pissing in urinals in a ‘gender neutral’ toilets then surely that’s indecent exposure.

The organisation is setting men up to be charged with a sexual offence just because they needed to pee.

"Toilets for everyone" needs to include female only provision for females who cannot access mixed sex provision. Otherwise no, it's using a false flag of 'inclusion' to force an agenda that is political and not inclusive at all.

Can we organise a committee of pissed of Glaswegian women to deliver nationwide training to female people who need boundaries? And are dealing with those determined to tear other people's boundaries down and strip away their access to serve their personal agendas? Because major issue here.

@MoltenLasagne

I wonder why a man would choose to queue for the women's toilets when there are perfectly adequate and free men's toilets available? I certainly wouldn't assume good intentions tbh so well done for standing your ground.

By the sounds of the set up, it seems these toilets did not meet the requirements to be mixed sex either.

Probably because he wanted a shit, I imagine men’s cubicles are pretty vile. Let’s face it, if he had only wanted to pee he would have gone in the gents.

If he's deliberately joining the longer queue it's because he's a perv, not because he just wants to pee.

Probably because he wanted a shit, I imagine men’s cubicles are pretty vile
Why are they vile? Because men use them. So what happens when men start using the women's?

Follow this nonsense to it's logical conclusion 🤦‍♀️

@JakeyRolling

If he's deliberately joining the longer queue it's because he's a perv, not because he just wants to pee.

Are drunk women in nightclubs pervs too when going into the men's toilets because all the cubicles are full in the woman's loos ?

Are drunk women in nightclubs pervs too when going into the men's toilets because all the cubicles are full in the woman's loos ?
How is that remotely comparable to deliberately standing in a queue (when the men's toilet you'd be expected to use had no queue) to access the toilet you've decided you want to use?

Well done OP, I hate the trend towards mixed sex toilets as default. Gender neutral facilities should be provided alongside men's and women's facilities, but of course that costs money- far cheaper just to order some new signs for the doors.
The worst example I've seen is at a bar/club I sometimes go to- one toilet with three cubicles and three urinals behind a little saloon type door for modesty. Any man needing to use a cubicle then adds to the queue of all the women, who can't use the urinals of course.

But the women supported him

In almost any other part of the country they wouldn't have.

@GreyhoundG1rl

Probably because he wanted a shit, I imagine men’s cubicles are pretty vile Why are they vile? Because men use them. So what happens when men start using the women's? Follow this nonsense to it's logical conclusion 🤦‍♀️

It’s already happening. Compare the gender neutral toilet cubicles at the V and A where if you are wearing wide legged trousers you have to simultaneously pull your trouser legs up as you pull the waistband down to avoid the swampy puddles, with the next door still female only toilets where the floor is dry.

Leaving aside the false equivalence @chocolateorangeinhaler, tell me which sex commits the vast majority of sexual and violent crimes and tell me which sex is proportionally the victim?
A man deliberately inconveniencing himself to use facilities primarily aimed at the opposite sex, when there are ones available, and with no queue, for his own sex is a massive red flag.

This is odd. I thought there were more women wanting to trans than men. So it there a transman on here who wants to speak about using gender neutral loos?

Historically in entertainment spaces there have been fewer women's loos than men's. There's been a concern about this for ages since women queue because of anatomy for limited cubicles while men can simply use the urinals and the cubicles for a dump. And rearranging clothing takes more time for a pee for women than for men.

I am fairly happy to go to a mixed sex place providing it's floor to ceiling, has a washbasin and place for detritus, if it means women have more space.

I saw a tweet saying at twickenham there are mixed sex and men’s toilets

No women’s toilets

Tweets

@chocolateorangeinhaler so the drunken women you refer to use the men's to avoid queuing (not saying that they're right to do so), yet the drunken man in the OP has JOINED a queue instead of just going straight into the other one.

I don't think being logical is going to help @DdraigGoch

@ScholesPanda

Well done OP, I hate the trend towards mixed sex toilets as default. Gender neutral facilities should be provided alongside men's and women's facilities, but of course that costs money- far cheaper just to order some new signs for the doors. The worst example I've seen is at a bar/club I sometimes go to- one toilet with three cubicles and three urinals behind a little saloon type door for modesty. Any man needing to use a cubicle then adds to the queue of all the women, who can't use the urinals of course.

*@ScholesPanda* one toilet with three cubicles and three urinals behind a little saloon type door for modesty

So if everyone "just wants to pee" you have to 3 opportunities for every 6 a man has.

That's discrimination of provision based on sex

@knittingaddict

The restaurant I'm going to tomorrow has what are effectively gender neutral loos. One big room with cubicles for men down one side, cubicles for women down the other and wash hand basins in the middle. The cubicles aren't special and they look just look like any other cubicles in public loos.

OP, the situation you describe would have made me very uncomfortable. I'm usually capable of making a stand, but not sure what I would have done in your situation. Probably nothing.

I think the “2 rows of cubicles one row of wash basins in the middle” is awful. I used to have horrific periods and more than once had to rinse out my underwear in the basins in the women’s.

I’ve even seen this set-up with no door between the basins and the public space.

@chocolateorangeinhaler
Are drunk women in nightclubs pervs too when going into the men's toilets because all the cubicles are full in the woman's loos

The equivalence which you are attempting to use as an argument would be where a drunken woman joined a queue for the men’s toilets instead of entering the queue free women’s toilets. Wouldn’t you see that as odd?

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

How was 'the guy' following the rules?

There was no queue for the other loos, the traditional male loos.

Why do you think he decided to inconvenience himself?

(So many unintended puns available on this thread 😏)

If the sign said gender neutral, than it indicates the toilets are for whomever.

It's stupid, but he didn't put the sign up.

It would make more sense to address the people who put up the sign.

Yeah, but it pretty disingenuous to claim he was just following the "rules". Op pointed out that the gents loo was over there and had no queue and he insisted he wanted this one.
The one which did have a long queue; of women.

Just because you "can" do something doesn't mean you should. If someone insists on being a rude, selfish asshole, they're likely to get pushback. Ideally they should get pushback to try to stop them acting like that in future.

What would happen if we all acted like him?

Obviously the establishment needs pushback to, but it should also be made clear to men that they should not be using the women's, even if some stupid venue has stuck a "gender neutral" sign on it.

I'm glad you reacted, OP.

You certainly didn't over-react. You were being sensible.

@BloodinGutters , If men are pissing in urinals in a ‘gender neutral’ toilets then surely that’s indecent exposure.

The organisation is setting men up to be charged with a sexual offence just because they needed to pee.

I was talking about men in the men's toilets hardly being gender neutral if women have to pass waving willies in the public area. It is more like they are just setting women up so that men can expose themselves to women to their hearts content without women being able to complain about it. The chappies are just waving their willies about, don't you know, because the darlings just want to pee. Without men exposing themselves being deemed a sexual offence.

I imagine the gents remains the gents as there are urinals there. Unless women have to navigate men exposing themselves in the public area of the toilet, before they reach a cubicle. The ladies seems to have been converted into the mixed sex or gender neutral in effect.

So, in effect, women have to pass men exposing themselves while urinating. Or have longer queues in the women's toilets with men adding to the line. That is if the men doing so are, at the very best scenario, not there for more 'self' exciting or creepy reasons.

Actually, I can't get past some of the disgusting stuff I have read about why some males want to go into the women's toilets.

All I know is that if you keep all males out, the pervs will be kept out too. If a male just wants to pee, there is a men's toilet where they can pee to their hearts content. And the queues are shorter there, too. So, there must be a different reason they want to come into the women's toilets.