Man in women's loos - did o overreact?

[MakeTeaNotWar]

Went to a live music venue last night. In a very woke seaside town on the south coast for context. At the end of the night, I popped to the loo before leaving for home. As so often happens, the queue for ladies was lengthy, no real queue for the gents.

I joined the queue and noticed the person in front of me wasn't a man just keeping his partner company while she waited as I first thought, but a man waiting to use the toilet. He was not a trans woman, he was a man and a drunk one at that.

I told him he was in the wrong queue and pointed to the gents. He said he wanted to use these toilets. I asked why, he said they are gender neutral so he can. (I don't know if they are - they probably are as they had a multitude of arrows on the door.)

I said I am a woman needing to use the woman's facilities and I would do so, ahead of him.

The queue of women turned on me and said I couldn't block him, repeating these are gender neutral toilets. I said I cannot use a urinal and indeed went in front of him to use the loo first. When I had finished, I called the woman behind him to come forward and use the loo, which she did.

The other women very cross with me for blocking him and asserted he was perfectly entitled to use these toilets.

Did I do the wrong thing? I've thought about contacting the venue to understand what their loo provision is and asking was it right to have a man in the ladies (or are they gender neutral? Can anyone use the "gents")?

Thanks for reading long post

Nice work OP.

Little by little

A polite and evidence based email to the venue and the problem is rapidly solved.

This is heartening and it will encourage me to do similar if the situation ever arises.

Well done.👏👏👏,

Wow... I read it thinking.. hmm.. putting the onus on women to step out of the line and make a complaint only to have it explained to them that gender neutral was the way of the world... and then the comment that there is some legislation that prohibits the provision of same sex facilities, I am not aware of any legislation that prohibits the provision of same sex toilet facilities... but then I got to the end... HURRAH!!! Return to single sex until they can comply with the law!!! Hurrah, hurrah hurrah!!

Well done you for persisting because the first response was poor. I hope the team involved have extensive networks where they will share the basis of their decision and let this pebble create a gentle ripple outwards!!

Excellent news

Brilliant work OP!!

This following comment from them confuses me

We are aware of current legislation that supports same sex facilities and others that prohibit it.

What do they mean by legislation that prohibits same sex facilities?

They mean the Stonewall interpretation. The one that is "ahead of tghe law" as they say.

It's a lie. It is the reason so many government depts no longer pay memberships (except those that are members despite the Minister not being aware and being against it when they are aware - like Liz Truss).

Excellent use of the Building Regulations, OP. Well done.

And well done to that venue for listening.

Should have added - yeah the venue was probably duped into believeing 'Stonewall Law', goes without saying really.

@MakeTeaNotWar

Well done on the positive result.

The email raised questions:
Venue has been a venue for many years. As the current operators and license holders,..
(?) who wrote the documents they use to risk assess?

up to date with all access developments, whether it’s in the realm of building developments to..
(?) The document should first examine if the toilets meet up-to-date Building Regulations or qualify under an exemption, that is the restricting framework.

the audience profile. the nature of the event along with audience numbers..
(?) The document framework should first provide for minimum standards (F/M provision) and only then provide additional facilities.

engage with our professionally trained staff
(?) Document framework (changed or ignored resulting in a breach of minimum standards) is part of the pre-planning stage, by default training fails at implementing stage.

a direct result of consultation with our audiences..
(?) The document framework should prevent stakeholder influence on minimum standards

this is an area of venue operations that has come under scrutiny relatively quickly
(?) If a formal document framework existed which was it, flawed or ignored?

We are aware of current legislation that supports same sex facilities and others that prohibit it.
we are not in a position to always keep abreast of every development
(?) If you are going for plausible deniability make it plausible. Noting tone

Consequently we thank you for bringing the Building Regulations to our attention as we were not aware of our breach.
(?) Back to who wrote the documents they use to risk assess.
The basics are about safety.
Toilets are basic hygiene.
What else are they unaware of?
Did the author realise how that email is an admission of liability?

Bravo OP!

Bloody brilliant stuff, OP!

Changing the world, one polite email at a time. The Baroness would be proud

Well done Op, although I'd like to know what law they think prohibits same sex toilet provision! I'd also reply to say that spending money to make toilets 'inclusive' is not a good way to spend funds as I personally don't know any woman who supports them and this will put women off (even if they are fully enclosed cubicles, I certainly wouldn't want to use them!).

@teawamutu

Bloody brilliant stuff, OP!

Changing the world, one polite email at a time. The Baroness would be proud

Love this - 'one polite email at a time'

That's how you know the Op is truly female and has grown up and been socialised as a female as otherwise she'd be shouting and screaming and demanding her own way!

I have observed before, Jacqueline, that TRAs do rape and death threats, and we send thank you cards and bugger about with ribbons.

And then there's Baroness Nicholson's Strategic Coffees and Kathleen Stock and co being lovely and reasonable everywhere and the Resisters embroidering...

Socialisation's a bitch, but eventually it seems quite effective.

FANTASTIC OP xxx

Wow! Wonderful result.

I really thought it was just going to be the usual platitudes, from the excuses they were making.

Well done MakeTea!

Great result. Well done OP and thank you for persevering. That response is a lot of woke word salad isn't it? Only the final 5 lines have any real meaning.

🙌🙌🙌

I have been to this venue this evening and can confirm that the signage is traditional female symbol on one set, male on the other set and mixed for accessible and baby changing. Well done @MakeTeaNotWar

Ooh thanks for the update @GoodieMoomin that's great they did what they said would! Hope you enjoyed your show

@GoodieMoomin

I have been to this venue this evening and can confirm that the signage is traditional female symbol on one set, male on the other set and mixed for accessible and baby changing. Well done *@MakeTeaNotWar*

Whoop! Absolutely brilliant, sanity (and legality) restored. Fab work, OP.

Wow - fantastic update @GoodieMoomin & bloody well done @MakeTeaNotWar