Man in women's loos - did o overreact?

[MakeTeaNotWar]

Went to a live music venue last night. In a very woke seaside town on the south coast for context. At the end of the night, I popped to the loo before leaving for home. As so often happens, the queue for ladies was lengthy, no real queue for the gents.

I joined the queue and noticed the person in front of me wasn't a man just keeping his partner company while she waited as I first thought, but a man waiting to use the toilet. He was not a trans woman, he was a man and a drunk one at that.

I told him he was in the wrong queue and pointed to the gents. He said he wanted to use these toilets. I asked why, he said they are gender neutral so he can. (I don't know if they are - they probably are as they had a multitude of arrows on the door.)

I said I am a woman needing to use the woman's facilities and I would do so, ahead of him.

The queue of women turned on me and said I couldn't block him, repeating these are gender neutral toilets. I said I cannot use a urinal and indeed went in front of him to use the loo first. When I had finished, I called the woman behind him to come forward and use the loo, which she did.

The other women very cross with me for blocking him and asserted he was perfectly entitled to use these toilets.

Did I do the wrong thing? I've thought about contacting the venue to understand what their loo provision is and asking was it right to have a man in the ladies (or are they gender neutral? Can anyone use the "gents")?

Thanks for reading long post

I think the venue was wrong, the guy was following the rules
What?

And you did great OP.
I admire your bravery. That guy was an absolute creep and had no business going to the women’s facilities. Well done.

@LaBellina

And you did great OP. I admire your bravery. That guy was an absolute creep and had no business going to the women’s facilities. Well done.

Yep. Why was he doing that creepy as

I don’t even know what that sign means that you posted OP

Of course men's toilets typically have cubicles.

I'm just trying to understand why a man would just to queue up, among women complaining about his behaviour - rather than just go straight into a toilet. The OP says a number of times the toilets were gender neutral, so why did she think they were the ladies?

Someone upthread said something like if you have 2 cocks and a vagina plus genital piercings then it’s your toilet apparently 🤣 @littlbrowndog. That’s what the sign means.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🙌🏽

Maybe he was getting his jollies standing there while women were going to the toilet. (I'm assuming he was inside the basins area when you went in front of him and also called the next woman)

Also MargaritaPie to the disabled:

"You pushed in in front of someone who was perfectly entitled to use the disability-neutral facilities, and also encouraged someone else to do so too. And you're asking us how come all the others in the line were pissed at you?"

That’s what the sign means.

Although I can't explain the queue. Oh, Brighton and Hove, was it?

If both sets of toilets were gender neutral, why couldn't he use the other set?

And why did the queue form in the first place?

You'd think, all loos being equal, that the women would just have used the other facilities.

Unless... there was something about the setup that was, erm, how can I put this, ah ha! Simply traditional single sex loos with new stickers on the doors.

[quote MidsomerMurmurs]@spotcheck
@Platax
“If they were gender neutral then you had no right whatsoever to ban someone from them.

This”

For goodness’ sake. MIXED SEX. At least have the courtesy to own the argument you’re making.

References to “gender” are just inappropriate decorum. SEX.

MIXED SEX toilets or SINGLE SEX toilets. Which would you prefer?[/quote]
I think uni sex works fine for single occupancy toilets, like disabled access or just ones entirely on their own.

Mixed sex is the correct term otherwise. And is only legal if the same as above, but there can be plenty of those in a row (full walls/doors/hand basins inside/all have sanpro bin).

Gender neutral is deliberate obfuscation.

@GoodieMoomin

I also live in a woke seaside town and remember going to a venue in the before times where they had put "gender neutral" signs on all the doors. What then happened was two long queues full of women - one for the women's (a row of stalls, no floor to ceiling doors, separate row of basins) and one for the men's (same set up + a row of urinals).

I saw one man come down the stairs, look at the queues with a confused expression, and take himself away

I've got an event at the same venue in a couple of weeks so maybe I should ring them in advance. I suspect they will have the same terrible set up. Perhaps we should have a template letter outlining the regulations, that we can send. What do you do then, report them to the council? Not that that would help here, the council is woke af

If the venue is not with in the legal requirements of its licence add in a question on when the bar licence is up for renewal?

• sorry that was a bit vague. I mean unisex is clear as it’s either or, not at the same time, so makes sense for single use toilets.

Mixed sex would imply both sexes using them, likely at the same time if it’s somewhere busy.

I find the distinction helpful when complaining to schools etc

@GreyhoundG1rl

If it was that I wouldnt complain to him or use the toilets ahead of him, he might have needed to sit down? Why would you assume there aren't any cubicles in the gents? Where do men usually shit?

On women.

@MakeTeaNotWar

Ok so this was the sign on the door which I hadn't seen before and the other women were pointing out to me

Yeah, my response to that would be it's the cool kids toilets.

Where do the grown ups go to pee please?

@User983590521

Maybe he was getting his jollies standing there while women were going to the toilet. (I'm assuming he was inside the basins area when you went in front of him and also called the next woman)

Well if his piercing was proportionate to the symbol shown that would have been visible.

A crucified erect cock would be hard to miss.

Whether or not they are gender neutral is surely irrelevant if it causes an imbalance in the usage between the two available ones.

Also, if only men use the other one, then that is de facto discrimination because there is a men's one, a 'gender neutral' one but no women's one.

ps amazing thing to stand up to him and other women.

Gender neutral toilets introduced in schools in Brighton. Many people in the comments not agreeing with it at all. How do they manage to push through things like this? Are there ever any consultations with parents?
Well done OP for standing up against this guy.

"Schools in East Sussex are to be told that they should have “toilets for everyone” under new 'gender neutral' advice issued in Brighton and Hove’s Trans Inclusion Toolkit."
"The toolkit, which is backed by Brighton and Hove City Council, also includes guidance on issues such as mixed sports, the use of gendered language and the right for pupils to dress in either male or female uniform."

Forgot to add the link.

www.theargus.co.uk/news/19361363.gender-neutral-toilets-introduced-brighton-schools/

I don’t know how near the two sets of toilets were to each other but if I saw the gents, with no queue (as per usual) then a long queue (as per) of women nearby, I would assume they’re queuing for the LADIES, I wouldn’t even necessarily look at the markings on the door!

So, the men's cannot be gender neutral as there are men pissing in the open, in urinals. Rip them all out and make the area into cubicles, if they are being inclusive. It is not inclusive for women to have to look at men with their penis out, urinating.

They must be taking the piss if they are saying that the men's is the men's with no adaptions, yet the women have to be for all and sundry. Yet, with no more facilities. And yes, I think any guy who deliberately increases the queue for women in an already reduced amount of facilities is a rotter. At best, he is only a rotter.

This thread is astonishing in terms of how quickly women in the UK have given up their rights. Around 7 or 8 years ago I was at a big outdoor gig in Glasgow. It was pretty rough and queues for both the bars and the toilets were fucking enormous. Tempers were rising.

The toilets were portaloos so in all aspects they fitted the 'gender neutral' category, but those huge (and admittedly minging) pissoirs had been provided for men (behind screens). Packs of lassies were roaming the queues demanding to know if the men standing in line were shitting or pissing, and if pissing, 'gently' redirecting them to the pissoir line.

I mean, I'm not saying it was the best behaviour I've ever witnessed, but fuck me no-one argues with a pissed-off Glaswegian woman.

Wonder whose side they'd be on in this, OP's or pissed guy?

This thread makes me really glad I don't live in Brighton anymore.

@andyoldlabour

Gender neutral toilets introduced in schools in Brighton. Many people in the comments not agreeing with it at all. How do they manage to push through things like this? Are there ever any consultations with parents? Well done OP for standing up against this guy.

"Schools in East Sussex are to be told that they should have “toilets for everyone” under new 'gender neutral' advice issued in Brighton and Hove’s Trans Inclusion Toolkit."
"The toolkit, which is backed by Brighton and Hove City Council, also includes guidance on issues such as mixed sports, the use of gendered language and the right for pupils to dress in either male or female uniform."

Complain and report them to ofsted.

Building regulations act says toilets in schools must be single sex or mixed sex or unisex ones must be self contained/full doors/walls/basin inside and open onto a corridor.

It needs challenging, always.