Man in women's loos - did o overreact?

[MakeTeaNotWar]

Went to a live music venue last night. In a very woke seaside town on the south coast for context. At the end of the night, I popped to the loo before leaving for home. As so often happens, the queue for ladies was lengthy, no real queue for the gents.

I joined the queue and noticed the person in front of me wasn't a man just keeping his partner company while she waited as I first thought, but a man waiting to use the toilet. He was not a trans woman, he was a man and a drunk one at that.

I told him he was in the wrong queue and pointed to the gents. He said he wanted to use these toilets. I asked why, he said they are gender neutral so he can. (I don't know if they are - they probably are as they had a multitude of arrows on the door.)

I said I am a woman needing to use the woman's facilities and I would do so, ahead of him.

The queue of women turned on me and said I couldn't block him, repeating these are gender neutral toilets. I said I cannot use a urinal and indeed went in front of him to use the loo first. When I had finished, I called the woman behind him to come forward and use the loo, which she did.

The other women very cross with me for blocking him and asserted he was perfectly entitled to use these toilets.

Did I do the wrong thing? I've thought about contacting the venue to understand what their loo provision is and asking was it right to have a man in the ladies (or are they gender neutral? Can anyone use the "gents")?

Thanks for reading long post

OP as you were amazingly brave enough to take an immediate stand on this, I’m hoping you follow through and let it be known to the venue how you feel, plus including some of the government’s new guidelines on toilet provision after the public consultation (if those are the right words), whilst mentioning that if they have men’s plus gender neutral (with the GN toilets not being the correct design) toilets, this feels like sex discrimination against women where women are already at a disadvantage with standard provision.

@MakeTeaNotWar

Thanks yes - I will contact the venue. As far as I could tell there was a ladies and a gents. But the ladies were also gender neutral. But not self contained rooms, the usual set up of multiple stalls in a room with hand washing basins outside.

Tbh I think it was a drunk bloke being an arse and upsetting women. But the women supported him

If they were set up as stalls, with separate hand washing facilities they are not gender neutral

Gender neutral have to have floor to ceiling walls and doors and self contained toilet and sink

It annoys me when people say.. "you could have just used the mens". I don't want to use the mens toilet, I want to use a single sex toilet. And the mens are rarely gender neutral as there are urinals and whether based on biology or gender stereotypes, females do not stand to pee.

With a few drinks in, I'd probably have brought up the subject of his being a pervert.

If the toilets were "gender neutral", why would there have been another for gents only?

Unless the "gents" was just urinals?

Good on you, OP. Hope that if I'm ever in the same situation I'll do the same. And I hope the women who were angry with you wake up this morning thinking you had a point. Kudos to you!

I get so tired of these cool girls who will always rush to defend the rights of poor put upon males from other females and have no fucks to give about any other female with needs.

The sexism is writ huge, isn't it?

Males have needs they cannot possibly be expected to deal with.

Females can and must just suck it up. That's their job.

It's a very backhanded compliment in some ways that females are seen as so very much tougher, more capable, more competent, more resilient, more responsible than anyone with male biology - but that too is sexist as all fuck.

Males get to never give a toss for anyone else in the name of doing whatever they feel they need in that moment, and a herd of silly women will rush to enable them.

Well done for standing up to that man OP. There was no need for him to use the stalls in the women’s toilets - none whatsoever. He was just an arse looking to wind women up whilst enjoying the power that comes from male privilege.

Why is there always someone in these threads/scenarios suggesting you should then go and use the men’s toilets to “raise some eyebrows”, like it’s some fantastic “gotcha”.

As far as I can see that’s an own goal. All it will result in is some people saying - see - women don’t mind sharing toilets with men - what’s the big deal.

@diddl

If the toilets were "gender neutral", why would there have been another for gents only?

Unless the "gents" was just urinals?

Surely that's up to the person who is self identifying though! If we are having these 'gender neutral' toilets then everyone needs to have access to the urinals and the mens toilets regardless.

And if some people find using a urinal difficult because of what's in their pants the venue should get urinals that can be used by men with vaginas.

They can't have it both ways. Bastards.

@diddl

If the toilets were "gender neutral", why would there have been another for gents only?

Unless the "gents" was just urinals?

What seems to happen here is that to make a unisex toilet they change the woman’s toilet and leave the mens.

I don't live in the UK. While most toilets have a man or a woman sign on them its usual to use either

Really don't understand the issue? They are individual cubicles ?

Men's toilets are fucking gross. And the women's toilets will be fucking gross if we start letting men use them too.

@allmywhat

I think you were brilliant, OP. Exactly why did he “want to use these toilets?” Ugh. I despair of the women who told you off.

Me too!

Complain to the venue Op.

@334bu

Venue not complying with building regs. They are not providing gender neutral toilets , no matter what sign says, so well done that woman. Nothing wrong with mixed sex facilities if they are properly built. This is a venue wanting to be woke on the cheap.

Also agree with this! Please complain loudly to the venue Op.

@beastlyslumber

Men's toilets are fucking gross. And the women's toilets will be fucking gross if we start letting men use them too.

Where I used to work we had gender neutral toilets on the floor I worked on. They always had pee all over them. It was so gross. Both men and women ended up trekking to other floors to use the separate ones. I'm dreading the toilets where I work now becoming gender neutral as there'll be no separate options.

OP you are a brave woman!

Well done OP for challenging this man over his entitled behaviour . Sex is what we should be clear about, and as others have pointed out, changing the sign does not mean it meets legal requirements . I find it extraordinary how women can go along with the removal of any protections in favour of males needs to do whatever they want. See numerous reports of spy cameras in ladies loos put there by men. Among other offences not lest general intimidation.

Uterus havers do tend to have all.these annoying tendencies to bleed everywhere. Whatever their gender, the sexes have different plumbing and different needs.

@maddy68

I don't live in the UK. While most toilets have a man or a woman sign on them its usual to use either Really don't understand the issue? They are individual cubicles ?

Are you talking about single rooms i.e. with brick walls and a full door? Or are you talking about rooms with multiple stalls, possibly with thin partitions, which could easily have spy-holes, between them, that may have gaps at the bottom and top, for perverts to look over/under or film, ditto the doors, where there are communal hand basins so people could be uncomfortable with members of the opposite sex there, whilst washing their hands etc or adjusting themselves to feel comfortable e.g. checking their skirt isn’t tucked into their knickers or their hair isn’t showing, before returning to the general public?

@maddy68

I don't live in the UK. While most toilets have a man or a woman sign on them its usual to use either Really don't understand the issue? They are individual cubicles ?

Try reading around here and engaging your brain a bit. That might help you get the issue.

Even if the cubicles were full length with a sink, if the toilets formerly known as women's had 5 cubicles and the toilets formerly known as men's had 3 cubicles and 5 urinals the venue is still discriminating by sex, with facilities available to females being 8 and 13 for males.
They could argue we can use urinals but they'd have to lower them to accommodate our shorter average height and non flexible anatomy.

@maddy68

I don't live in the UK. While most toilets have a man or a woman sign on them its usual to use either Really don't understand the issue? They are individual cubicles ?

Try reading the OPs second post

Its the third post down

Two from OP and one from another poster

Well done OP

PP is right about the term gender neutral. I read that to mean if I'm gender neutral I can use them. But I'm not, I'm wearing a dress and lipstick so I'd still be looking for women's toilets. Mixed sex says it much clearer.
And well done OP for taking a stand. The bloke in question was conforming to the stereotype that men do what they want and don't consider anyone else. Even without considering whether the women were comfortable with him bring in there, the queue would have been shorter if he had gone in the men's. Thus the women who needed a wee and were behind him in the queue would have got there quicker. Selfish prick.

Being, not bring obv

How sad that a whole queue of women were prepared to come to the defence of a man determined to use the women's loos because he wanted to...
I despair.