Single sex spaces are "The hill I am prepared to die on".

[Maskless]

JHB tells BO'N that women's safety in single sex spaces is the topic she is prepared to lose her job about, and the hill she is prepared to die on.

I'm so glad to hear a high profile, loud and forceful woman making such a trenchant, no-nonsense, emphatic announcement about this issue.

Imagine how different things would be if EVERY female presenter, every female MP, every female in the public eye, was as steadfast.

www.spiked-online.com/podcast-episode/a-world-gone-mad/

As an aside I could go the whole rest of my life without hearing the phrase, 'old school transwomen' again and not miss it even a little bit...

I would too, but I share quite a large proportion of my leisure time with a couple of old fashioned trans people. And they are struggling with all of this. As individuals I have a lot of sympathy for them. I have known them since we were all in our teens - now tapping 60!

Happily they, like me, don't think human beings can change sex and both have rethought their use of single sex spaces - which causes them a lot of inconvenience (pardon the pun). but that is their burden these days!

@AnyOldPrion

A quick comment on the idea that butch lesbians are suddenly being challenged every five minutes in women’s toilets. The lesbian in the article shared isn’t a random lesbian. It’s “Ms Stonborough, the Associate Director of Policy and Research at Stonewall”. Not sure if it’s the same article I read before, but I’ve read one where she made the ludicrous claim that she was challenged about a third of the time she uses public toilets. As the mother of a butch lesbian, who hasn’t once been challenged in the UK, and as someone who has spoken to a number of other butch lesbians who’ve perhaps been rarely queried but never nastily, I think we can safely dismiss any article quoting that woman as hyperbolic propaganda, with no basis in truth. Please point it out any time you see her quoted.

Good for JHB though! A hill worth dying on indeed, and I’m glad to see women (even those who are normally confident, as JHB is) standing up for this in increasingly secure terms. Though it’s still not easy to speak out, the accusations and name-calling are getting less and less effective.

Seconding this. When I was younger and had shorter hair I looked more butch but I have rarely been challenged in the ladies loos. I have a 6ft tall lesbian friend who dresses in men's jeans, shirts and jackets and has a classic man's short haircut and even she is only occasionally challenged. We understand why. We have sisters and nieces and elderly aunts: we understand they want single-sex spaces.

We've both been asked by women whether we shouldn't be in the men's and the moment we turn round and say 'I'm actually female' our voices and attitude reassure them. Ms Stonborough, the Stonewall stooge, looks far less butch than a great many straight young women I see around with their tats and radical undercuts. I don't believe a word of her article.

Yep. The second a human being moves their sex becomes apparent.

I'll say it again The hips don't lie!

I was once once challenged by a male publican going up to stairs to the Female toilets. What he saw was the back of my doc martins, jeans and black leather jacket.

I turned round and started to speak and he immediately said, 'oh sorry, love!'

He knew straight away then - face, voice, tits.

I bet a woman would have known anyway from my gait from behind.

Always worth bringing this back!

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I would too, but I share quite a large proportion of my leisure time with a couple of old fashioned trans people. And they are struggling with all of this. As individuals I have a lot of sympathy for them. I have known them since we were all in our teens - now tapping 60!

Happily they, like me, don't think human beings can change sex and both have rethought their use of single sex spaces - which causes them a lot of inconvenience (pardon the pun). but that is their burden these days!

I appreciate your experience and I am sure your friends are lovely.

However on here the, 'if it were just old school transwomen popping in to have a pee...' narrative does my head in. I don't want men in the toilet however long they have been denigrating my sex by cosplaying it to be really frank. And it makes no logical sense as a stance either.

Yes, I should have ended my post with something very similar.

I am not usually so restrained about it!

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Yes, I should have ended my post with something very similar.

I am not usually so restrained about it!

Well your restraint probably does you credit and I am sure I could learn from it so I shall stop being snappy

That started life as 'snippy'. But the autocorrect works...

I use snark. Auto thingy tends not to mess with it

Gender identity does not change a person's sex. No matter how people decorate themselves, they know what sex they are and so does everyone else. No matter what pills they take, they remain the same sex. No matter what surgeries they have, they remain the same sex. Males don't belong in female bathrooms. End of.

'Gncq
Gender ideology myth number 17 "For there to be women only spaces we'll need genital inspections for everyone"....'

I find this argument intriguing. And very telling.

Situation.

Women and girls queuing in bogs.

Person comes in that they think that's a bloke and creep alarm going off.
Excuse me this is the ladies.
I'm female.
Oh really!!! We'll see about that. Creepy man pull down your trousers and pants immediately! And show us all your genitals.

I mean it sounds really really likely...!

Definitely a hill worth dying on.
If we don't, we're giving away our rights.

Transmen can use whichever toilets they want to use.
I'm fine with them in the women's. For the more convincing ones, they are perfectly safe in the men's.
I do not want any male person in the women's facilities.
3rd spaces are the best solution for this.
Men's
Women's
Disabled
Unisex

TW are not campaigning for this because they are not looking for TW to be safe, they are looking to destroy the definition of woman so that they can be part of it.

I was chatting to a friend recently and she reminded me about a large pub in our city was refurbished more than 20 years ago and the toilets were mixed. Cubicles on left wall , cubicles on right wall and two lines of sinks in the middle. We remembered how woman we knew who visited that pub never went back. The pub refurbished the toilets back to normal within 6 months. Both men and women were unhappy with the set up and so were the staff.

@NiceGerbil

'Gncq Gender ideology myth number 17 "For there to be women only spaces we'll need genital inspections for everyone"....'

I find this argument intriguing. And very telling.

Situation.

Women and girls queuing in bogs.

Person comes in that they think that's a bloke and creep alarm going off.
Excuse me this is the ladies.
I'm female.
Oh really!!! We'll see about that. Creepy man pull down your trousers and pants immediately! And show us all your genitals.

I mean it sounds really really likely...!

I agree, its used to threaten and intimidate women into submission.

The idea of genital inspections is ludicrous.

The fact is we can tell who trans women are 99% of the time. It's not a kind thing to say but it is true I'm afraid.

Yes the need for genital inspection has as much truth as " women are just as likely to be sex offenders as men" and" women have as much to fear from lesbians " as they do from male sexed people who identify as women. Absolute balderdash!!!!

It's not generally women who are keen to see the genitals of strangers they note are male but in women's areas. I mean. Vanishingly rare.

Meanwhile there are plenty of male people about who would be more than happy to look down the knickers of women and girls they don't know. Also plenty who are more than keen to show random women and girls their cocks without even having to be asked!

It sounds more like a male fantasy than anything that would cross the minds of women/ girls.

I mean yuck.

Hello obvious male bloke in the ladies! You need to show me your cock. And also if you want look at my fanny.

And this is supposed to be a really good point

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, there’s only one kind of person wants genital inspections and they ain’t feminists.

And how on earth do any of these people who suggest these inspections progress with a date?

“Well we’ve had a lovely time tonight and we’ve loads in common, but I need to inspect your genitals before I can decide if we should kiss. Could I just get a quick look before I make my decision?”

No thanks.

It’s difficult to write here for fear of being censored. But if it were up to me, Elliot Page should be in the women’s loos, not the men’s. Elliot Page was born female. I’d argue that Elliot Page shouldn’t be in the men’s as I think single sex spaces are important and should be sacrosanct.

Gender isn’t sex, sex is immutable and I certainly don’t agree with single gender spaces, which could be construed as mixed sex spaces. Sigh. Such a minefield.
I have been peaking loads of women, most of them have no idea the battle women are fighting.

But the sun is shining brighter by the day. And it ain’t climate change.

None of us know what their preferred facilities are!

In the end she can use either.

If men don't feel that's right then they need to make a fuss! EP is not going to a danger to them are they.

Isn't it up to men whether their spaces are sacrosanct?

I mean it's a totally different ballgame.