Single sex spaces are "The hill I am prepared to die on".

[Maskless]

JHB tells BO'N that women's safety in single sex spaces is the topic she is prepared to lose her job about, and the hill she is prepared to die on.

I'm so glad to hear a high profile, loud and forceful woman making such a trenchant, no-nonsense, emphatic announcement about this issue.

Imagine how different things would be if EVERY female presenter, every female MP, every female in the public eye, was as steadfast.

www.spiked-online.com/podcast-episode/a-world-gone-mad/

I don't agree with a lot of what she says, but I'm very grateful for this stance.

'If you’re all fine and dandy with non trans men pretending to be trans men and shouting about single sex spaces and their rights then your worms for brain logic is brilliant. Go you'

I don't understand. Genuinely.

What I think in translation is.

'If you’re all fine and dandy with males who do not have a trans ID pretending to be females who ID as male and shouting about single sex spaces and their rights then your worms for brain logic is brilliant. Go you'

??? Sorry I'm just baffled. Is that right? Can you be clearer.

@EsmaCannonball

A few years ago a woman and her two daughters were murdered in a home invasion in Connecticut, one of those crimes which burns into your memory when you read about it in the papers. This week I read on Twitter that one of the men who committed these murders now identifies as a woman and is suing the prison system for not fully supporting his new identity. This comes not long after reading about a Canadian woman who was murdered during a home invasion, with one of the perpetrators now identifying as a woman and looking likely to be sent to a women's prison.

This is the hill I will die on. The most repulsive and vicious active misogynists should never be allowed the power to enter our spaces on their own say-so.

Quoting that as it bears repeating.

I absolutely agree.

@NiceGerbil

'HeddaAga - I’m almost certain men poop.'

Sorry this is silly. But poop? You mean they shit? Crap? Take a dump?

That's a euphemism I haven't heard before! Poop

Sorry I just, it's like when parents say. Oh gosh. Sugar! Etc.

We are all grown ups here, you don't need to use child friendly words!

Infantilises them somewhat too. The menz,, just like little toddlers, not a threat at all.

I do love this idea that after millennia of existence human beings suddenly need to perform genital inspections to tell who is a man and who is a woman. Geoff Capes and Gloria Hunniford, I'm always getting those two mixed up!

Mixed sex psychiatric wards and prisons are unsafe for women. This isn't news, its been a known scandal for decades so why people are facilitating mixed sex units all of a sudden is a mystery.

@334bu

*If they did a crime that warranted a prison sentence, then that person should be assessed on a case by case basis. Especially what ever their crime was. Prisons will, by their nature, include violent and dangerous individuals who present a risk to other inmates regardless. No one should be assaulted.*

My God can you hear yourself. How little you consider women? Transwomen are statistically as much of a danger to women as any other males and you want to open the doors of female prisons to them?

You would be in favour of all prisons being mixed sex.

But categorised according to the risk any criminal presents.

So like we have at moment-

High risk, medium, low type thing. And irrespective of sex, go to the prison according to the risk they pose.

Yes?

@ArabellaScott

Should transmen be sent to a men's prison should they be convicted of a crime?

God no, they're born women. What a terrible idea that would be. No natal woman should ever be ideologically and RL incarcerated in a men's prison.

And vice versa. No natal women prisoners should ever be ideologically and RL incarcerated with natal men.

If you’re all fine and dandy with non trans men pretending to be trans men and shouting about single sex spaces and their rights then your worms for brain logic is brilliant. Go you 👏👏

Is this supposed to make some kind of sense? Google translate please?

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

If you’re all fine and dandy with non trans men pretending to be trans men and shouting about single sex spaces and their rights then your worms for brain logic is brilliant. Go you

did anyone understand this

is it non non crap?

The post suggests that if Elliot Page is forced to use women’s toilets, any man could use a women’s toilet by pretending to be a trans man.

However, I don’t think anyone has argued that Elliot Page should be forced to use a women’s toilet.

@Conniethesensible

Just a thought. Would people like Elliot Page then have to go to the women’s bathroom? Or Chaz Bono?

And don’t you dare say they can use the disabled room. That’s insulting for actual disabled people who need those provisions.

Let’s be real this would be rather silly wouldn’t it?

No. Eliot Page has chosen to identify out of their natal sex, therefore the gender neutral facility of a disabled toilet is perfectly adequate for Page or Chaz Bono, if they male toilets are an intimidating and hostile environment for them.

Sometimes, that's just the way the cookie crumbles, as being Transsexual involves living and being accepted as a member of the opposite sex.

It's easier for females to pass & gain acceptance as the male sex, because in many ways, theirs is an attempt to identify into Male Privilege. No biological male is going to be scared of Eliot Page in the male bogs, and they have no reason to be either - they could easily overpower Page, if inclined to do so!

The issue, especially with self ID, is there is no way to legally distinguish between males who identify as women and those who don't as they all belong to the same sex class.

The only way to let males who identify as women in, is to remove the current protections that allow us to legally discriminate against ALL males on the basis of sex, which is what Stonewall et al are trying to do despite pretending "there is no clash of rights". Gender identity does not change sex.

So the selfish male genderists, with all their male entitlement, demanding access to female single sex spaces for validation of their entirely subjective, completely unprovable gender feelz, are opening the doors to ALL men because despite claiming to be women, they actually give zero shits about the females they are putting in danger because of it. They don't even see us as humans entitled to our own privacy, dignity and safety.

Males colonizing our sex class and removing our legal protections IS female oppression. Same old bullshit.

Female spaces must stay penis free. They are there for our protection not for validating male identities. Campaign for your own 'safe spaces' and leave ours alone.

In the video she talks about gaslighting us, stealing our language, and cancelling anyone who raises their voice in protest.

@NiceGerbil

'HeddaAga - I’m almost certain men poop.'

Sorry this is silly. But poop? You mean they shit? Crap? Take a dump?

That's a euphemism I haven't heard before! Poop

Sorry I just, it's like when parents say. Oh gosh. Sugar! Etc.

We are all grown ups here, you don't need to use child friendly words!

I'm guessing that poster is from the US just by some of the language they use... but yeah they sound like a 5 year old .

I honestly don't know why we're bothering to argue with this bullshit. A simple NO will suffice. Women and girls are safer in single sex spaces. So no.

@EsmaCannonball

A few years ago a woman and her two daughters were murdered in a home invasion in Connecticut, one of those crimes which burns into your memory when you read about it in the papers. This week I read on Twitter that one of the men who committed these murders now identifies as a woman and is suing the prison system for not fully supporting his new identity. This comes not long after reading about a Canadian woman who was murdered during a home invasion, with one of the perpetrators now identifying as a woman and looking likely to be sent to a women's prison.

This is the hill I will die on. The most repulsive and vicious active misogynists should never be allowed the power to enter our spaces on their own say-so.

Well said. You are not alone in this. Women have had enough of this shit !

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

If you’re all fine and dandy with non trans men pretending to be trans men and shouting about single sex spaces and their rights then your worms for brain logic is brilliant. Go you

did anyone understand this

is it non non crap?

No idea.

@EsmaCannonball

A few years ago a woman and her two daughters were murdered in a home invasion in Connecticut, one of those crimes which burns into your memory when you read about it in the papers. This week I read on Twitter that one of the men who committed these murders now identifies as a woman and is suing the prison system for not fully supporting his new identity. This comes not long after reading about a Canadian woman who was murdered during a home invasion, with one of the perpetrators now identifying as a woman and looking likely to be sent to a women's prison.

This is the hill I will die on. The most repulsive and vicious active misogynists should never be allowed the power to enter our spaces on their own say-so.

I think I know the crime you are talking about, because it was so fucking horrendous I had nightmares about it for a while after (and I'm a true crime fanatic so that is saying something).

I'm guessing it is the guy who anally raped the 11 or 12 year old daughter, took photos of it on his phone, and then SET FIRE to both daughters while they were still alive and tied to their beds so they couldn't escape.

That guy wants to be in a women's prison ? Is there nowhere that women won't be able to escape from these monsters?

You would be in favour of all prisons being mixed sex. But categorised according to the risk any criminal presents.

If this were the case, then prisons would be almost entirely single sex as a result. There are no Category A women prisoners, but there are seven entire Category A prisons full of men. Males transferred to women's prisons almost always experience a step down in regime that they would not have been permitted if they had stayed in the male estate.

Bearing in mind that for some strange reason the prison service and MoJ absolutely will not place a TM in a men's prison, if prisons were organised by severity of crime they would have the issue of the vanishingly few women prisoners with the severity of offending being in such a minority.... that they probably could not permit it anyway for safety reasons.

Doesn't work when reality and practicality is applied. Only when trying to leverage the right of a male person to have wants and wishes met at the expense of the physical safety, feelings, needs, vulnerabilities (sod wishes and wants, they don't count at all) of females.

Indefensible. If you see females as equally human to males.

@EsmaCannonball

I do love this idea that after millennia of existence human beings suddenly need to perform genital inspections to tell who is a man and who is a woman. Geoff Capes and Gloria Hunniford, I'm always getting those two mixed up!

Though history the arbiters of man-enough, woman-enough have in the vast majority been men.

Their judgement being based on stereotypes and standard about appearance, plus how much adherence to sex (gender) roles.

Blokes have also wanked on forever about that most mysterious conundrum - what is a woman?

From ancient Greek philosophers, to centuries of poetry plays and books. Musings.

I mean FFS it's not difficult. Well to vagina types it isn't.

Born with vulva not cock? Yep. Not scratching my head here in bafflement.

But chaps. Oh dear. Ineffable. Mysterious. What oh what is a woman?

They know who isn't though and are vocal about it.

Those in 'not a real woman' category according to plenty of men-

Lesbians. Not the ones in porn for men. They're fine. The real life ones. Esp if 'trying to look like men'.

The awesome athletes Fatima Whitbread and Serena Williams (I'm sure many more who have had men be total shits about their looks and physicality).

Women who don't play the game by responding to strange men who decide to talk to them. With the correct level of polite smileyness, and or how aren't careful and subtle when telling them to fuck off.

And so many more.

No. Eliot Page has chosen to identify out of their natal sex, therefore the gender neutral facility of a disabled toilet is perfectly adequate for Page or Chaz Bono

I disagree. Disabled toilet facilities are few enough without them being used by people who don’t need them.

We need to be campaigning for more and better facilities.

For one thing, women’s different physiology means they are more reliant on adequate public toilets if they have a disability.

Men really do seem to have very peculiar ideas about women and girls.

Meanwhile. Women and girls are very competent about identifying the most basic thing that there is in mammals (and most other animals) -. Which is male and which is female.

JHB is awesome

Blokes have also wanked on forever about that most mysterious conundrum - what is a woman?

And do they have souls ?

Artichoke -

Thank you for reading and responding about mixed sex prisons.

My post was in response to Conniethesensible who indicated that it's how they think it should work. Sex irrelevant. Risk presented is the main thing.

I'm very interested in hearing Connie's confirmation that's their stance. Or if their approach is more involved than that in some way.