Single sex spaces are "The hill I am prepared to die on".

[Maskless]

JHB tells BO'N that women's safety in single sex spaces is the topic she is prepared to lose her job about, and the hill she is prepared to die on.

I'm so glad to hear a high profile, loud and forceful woman making such a trenchant, no-nonsense, emphatic announcement about this issue.

Imagine how different things would be if EVERY female presenter, every female MP, every female in the public eye, was as steadfast.

www.spiked-online.com/podcast-episode/a-world-gone-mad/

I honestly worry about someone as vulnerable as EP having to use make public toilets. I don't think they're always safe spaces. However I suspect EP's and CB's star status means they won't have to use many dodgy public loos. I'm genuinely more concerned for the young female to male transitioners making up the 4000% increase in referrals for gender dysphoria and being clocked as female in male spaces.

Unless at eg a festival or in a place with street urinals. In normal bogs there are urinals and cubicles.

Because men do need a shit sometimes. And some men don't like urinals and prefer to use a cubicle to pee.

Male not make

Because let's face it, we can't even trust fucking policemen nowadays. Why are we even considering sending young women into the men's or indeed inviting men into female spaces. It's utterly idiotic.

@Helmetbymidnight

the idea that we need genital inspections to have womens sports, prisons and refuges is off the scale nuts - it sounds like abusive male talk- 'im not going to respect your boundaries'

The Olympics for years meant intrusive physical exams to ensure female athletes were female.

All the time it was going on. There were women including athletes saying. This is shitty.

You remember that?

Did you kick up a fuss/ try and get involved in changing their protocols?

Would be keen to know.

Arabella and yourhairiswinterfire (cool username)

If they did a crime that warranted a prison sentence, then that person should be assessed on a case by case basis. Especially what ever their crime was. Prisons will, by their nature, include violent and dangerous individuals who present a risk to other inmates regardless. No one should be assaulted.

HeddaAga - I’m almost certain men poop.

@Conniethesensible

Just a thought. Would people like Elliot Page then have to go to the women’s bathroom? Or Chaz Bono?

And don’t you dare say they can use the disabled room. That’s insulting for actual disabled people who need those provisions.

Let’s be real this would be rather silly wouldn’t it?

You aren’t comparing like with like because men aren’t generally concerned about the threat of female violence and very few violent crimes are committed by women.

Whether or not men are similarly concerned about loss of dignity when they are in a state of undress, I don’t know. If there does seem to be a conflict of rights then you would need to weigh up competing needs, as with any other similar situation.

Nobody is arguing that disabled provision should be used by people who don’t need it, or that there shouldn’t be additional unisex provision for anyone who needs it, so your suggestion that they are is indeed a bit silly.

@334bu

*I don't care what Elliot Page chooses to do, that's up to Elliot Page. What I care about is that there are single sex women's spaces for women who need them, and those spaces are protected from male people who have no regard or interest in the inclusion of females in seeking to meet their own needs.* Exactly!

Couldn't agree more.

As ever, why are women the only group expected to put themselves last in their own sodding liberation movement?

Poor Elliott Page, I wonder if they realise they're now every TRA's genital inspection in "bathrooms" gotcha. A career high.

For those who are offering hypotheticals etc. To argue against single sex things.

What is your take on this point-

'How am I supposed to know who was born as female and who was born as male when they clearly present male without some sort of hideous genital inspection'.

You are aware I assume. That there are a fair old number of male facilities where genital 'inspection'. As it were. Is a reason for using them?

In the UK it's called cottaging. Very old law. Debates around it's existence/ how it's written. Famously in 60s police used it to target gay men.

That's another thread though!

The fact is that around the place certain male public facilities are popular for men to um. Interact with other men.

Genital 'inspection' is the order of the day!

I mean you know that. How does the fact that when it comes to bogs, male and female people have different biological needs (getting rid of urinals is a rubbish idea, sanitary bins need needed in the ladies etc) and also different 'rules' about behaviour etc. Including the fact that some male facilities are, and have been for decades (more?) used for sexual encounters. And that it's seen by a certain proportion of gay men as an important part of their history etc?

good for Julia HB

women need and deserve single sex hospital wards, their own sports and single sex prisons. of course they bloody do.

And don’t you dare say they can use the disabled room.

Don't you dare? Are you being fucking serious?

Of course every mention of third spaces is completely ignored. There's no discussion, debate or compromising with this nonsense - it's give up your spaces and shut up.

No.

nah, its only now i have a teen dd who is an athlete involved in women sports that ive become interested in sports at all - so sue me.

still ive listened to sharron davies and martina and coach blade etc
all the kids have paperwork that says their sex. theres swab tests that can be done.
Are we at the stage where we have to pretend that keeping girls and women sports for girls and women is impossible?
(no we're not.)

Vagina = women's toilets.

Penis = men's toilets.

If they did a crime that warranted a prison sentence, then that person should be assessed on a case by case basis. Especially what ever their crime was. Prisons will, by their nature, include violent and dangerous individuals who present a risk to other inmates regardless. No one should be assaulted.

My God can you hear yourself. How little you consider women? Transwomen are statistically as much of a danger to women as any other males and you want to open the doors of female prisons to them?

Toilets can be such a red herring..... as can Elliott Page, who is obviously no threat to anyone.

Let's talk Karen White and Jessica yaniv....

And let's figure out a way where Elliott page is able to be comfortable wherever he goes but white and yaniv are excluded from places they should not be.

Genital inspections were not necessary at the Wi Spa, were they? And the lady trying to report the incident was vilified and ridiculed - so let's start there. As soon as we see a penis, as soon as we see unacceptable behaviour we report and it is up to the individual to prove they have the right to be there.

How about we preserve women's sports but campaign for open leagues.

How about we keep the language to describe us and our experiences exactly as it has been for thousands of years, but recognise there may be an appitite for new words alongside - not instead of - the old ones.

What solutions do you have?

@Eucalyptustrees

Poor Elliott Page, I wonder if they realise they're now every TRA's genital inspection in "bathrooms" gotcha. A career high.

If you’re all fine and dandy with non trans men pretending to be trans men and shouting about single sex spaces and their rights then your worms for brain logic is brilliant. Go you 👏👏👏

@Conniethesensible

Arabella and yourhairiswinterfire (cool username)

If they did a crime that warranted a prison sentence, then that person should be assessed on a case by case basis. Especially what ever their crime was. Prisons will, by their nature, include violent and dangerous individuals who present a risk to other inmates regardless. No one should be assaulted.

HeddaAga - I’m almost certain men poop.

No, all male prisoners should be in male accommodation. Without exception.

Access to females is not a human right for males. It's an absolute failure rooted in appalling misogyny and viewing females as props in male lives. It's inexcusable.

'HeddaAga - I’m almost certain men poop.'

Sorry this is silly. But poop? You mean they shit? Crap? Take a dump?

That's a euphemism I haven't heard before! Poop

Sorry I just, it's like when parents say. Oh gosh. Sugar! Etc.

We are all grown ups here, you don't need to use child friendly words!

If they did a crime that warranted a prison sentence, then that person should be assessed on a case by case basis. Especially what ever their crime was. Prisons will, by their nature, include violent and dangerous individuals who present a risk to other inmates regardless.

I think that perhaps you don’t know much about differences between the make and female prison estate.

They vary hugely in size and structure.

Only about 4% of prisoners are female, and there are no female prisons for the highest category of prisoner.

The number of men in prison just for sex related crimes is many times the size of the entire female prison estate. Just a 0.5% transfer from the male estate (and self ID would give any prisoner that right) would require the building of new facilities.

A few years ago a woman and her two daughters were murdered in a home invasion in Connecticut, one of those crimes which burns into your memory when you read about it in the papers. This week I read on Twitter that one of the men who committed these murders now identifies as a woman and is suing the prison system for not fully supporting his new identity. This comes not long after reading about a Canadian woman who was murdered during a home invasion, with one of the perpetrators now identifying as a woman and looking likely to be sent to a women's prison.

This is the hill I will die on. The most repulsive and vicious active misogynists should never be allowed the power to enter our spaces on their own say-so.

So disabled people are a clear group with needs that should be respected.

but only the ones who fit a certain agenda, please note.

Women with disabilities that preclude them from using mixed sex spaces don't have needs that should be respected at all.

This isn't inclusive thinking, this is merely using helpful bits of other people's struggles as leverage for a political goal. While trying to make it look a bit nicer and more caring than it actually is.

If you’re all fine and dandy with non trans men pretending to be trans men and shouting about single sex spaces and their rights then your worms for brain logic is brilliant. Go you

did anyone understand this

is it non non crap?

And none of this has anything to do with poor JHB and her podcast.....

@Conniethesensible

Just a thought. Would people like Elliot Page then have to go to the women’s bathroom? Or Chaz Bono?

And don’t you dare say they can use the disabled room. That’s insulting for actual disabled people who need those provisions.

Let’s be real this would be rather silly wouldn’t it?

They are not the responsibility of women. They reject their female status. Let them fight for third spaces or take up their space in the male toilets if that's what they want. Men (the XY variety) can fight their own corner if they don't want them there. Seriously, I am sick of having to accommodate these narcs in my "thinking". Women have suffered an absolutely massive blow over the last week. Abandoned by the so called good guys in Labour and utterly betrayed by the police. Time to concentrate on women and girls alone and their safety. Everyone else can look after themselves - they sure as shit don't care about us.