Starmer on Marr now

[Jaysmith71]

We must have a tolerent debate.... Trans community are the most marginalised community of all

....and 'Only women have a cervix' is, "Something that should not be said."

If the tories fought against this and won I’m sure many feminists would go back to voting Labour, re-subscribe to guardian and sneering at conservatives and their daily mail reading voters as soon as the tories gave them what they wanted.

The Tories did though, they reviewed the GRA consultation results and decided against removing the medical diagnosis.

Labour are still planning on doing the opposite so women are still not going back to them.

Read the Guardian? It's been far too silly for a long time.

There's much better writers available in a wide range of places now.

My goodness. I've had a post deleted for pointing out that a person who is biologically male cannot have a cervix.

I mean, maybe the monitors didn't like my post, but I'm shocked the mods saw fit to delete it. How are we supposed to have a discussion about this if we cannot refer to fundamental scientific facts?

Sorry, cross post, thanks for the support everyone. I'm genuinely shocked.

@OldCrone

This is India's tweet Alekto

I have a cervix. Get checked by the NHS every few years. Demeaning talking about it @AndrewMarr9. You absolutely know this a work-around way of calling women who are T men, leading into all the other bigotry. #Marr

Perhaps India believes that India also has a uterus.

Sublime. Thank you

@EdgeOfACoin

Sorry, cross post, thanks for the support everyone. I'm genuinely shocked.

Me too.

I wonder how many years those checks have been going on.

@EdgeOfACoin

My goodness. I've had a post deleted for pointing out that a person who is biologically male cannot have a cervix.

I mean, maybe the monitors didn't like my post, but I'm shocked the mods saw fit to delete it. How are we supposed to have a discussion about this if we cannot refer to fundamental scientific facts?

WTAF??

@EdgeOfACoin

Sorry, cross post, thanks for the support everyone. I'm genuinely shocked.

Your belief that males do not have a cervix, even if there are some who say they do, is protected. I would ask for your post to be reinstated.

I have a cervix. Get checked by the NHS every few years. Demeaning talking about it @AndrewMarr9. You absolutely know this a work-around way of calling women who are T men, leading into all the other bigotry. #Marr

This is the problem. Saying only women have cervices is not a 'work around'. It's not code, it's not an agenda, it's not reading between the lines.

It's a fact. It's a fact that certain people do not want us to say. We are not the ones with the agenda.

[quote OldCrone]They took exactly the stance a centre left party would be expected to take and the stance logically consistent with left wing ideology.

Why is this 'expected' of centre left parties? And why is it logically consistent with left wing ideology? Left wing parties such as the communists tend to be against this.

The present debate around self-identification conflates “sex” and “gender” and fails to understand that challenging the specific discrimination faced by trans people is not served by undermining resistance to the centuries-old oppression of women as a biological sex.

For women, the result is that their collective rights as a group are currently being undermined through the weaponisation of a post-modern identity politics, focused solely on the rights of individuals.

morningstaronline.co.uk/article/women-class-and-gender-%E2%80%93-communist-perspective[/quote]
“Why is this 'expected' of centre left parties?”

Because centre left parties are socially liberal and the only responsibilities or limitations of an individual that social liberalism recognises is the responsibilities and limitations that the individual chooses for themselves. That’s one of the reasons the pro-life/pro-choice debate in the USA is so split on party lines.

Once the socially liberal side of the political debate wins a political debate on any issue they immediately pick a new one. It’s a process that never ends and incidentally one that social liberals have been winning in the western world since at least the 1960’s. It has no natural end point.

You will always be able to find a few exceptions such as the SDP or a few MPs but these exceptions are so small that they prove the rule.

The far left are not the centre left, the far left are essentially communists and communism isn’t socially liberal. Communism is also modern, it’s not a post modern idea, Marxism is rooted firmly in modernism.

If liberal left wing voters are unable to see where their parties principles will lead them when unleashed in the real world, well I don’t know what to say about that.

I honestly can’t believe this! Are MN now telling us we can’t say only women have cervixes ? Am I in an episode of Black Mirror?!

[quote OldCrone]They took exactly the stance a centre left party would be expected to take and the stance logically consistent with left wing ideology.

Why is this 'expected' of centre left parties? And why is it logically consistent with left wing ideology? Left wing parties such as the communists tend to be against this.

The present debate around self-identification conflates “sex” and “gender” and fails to understand that challenging the specific discrimination faced by trans people is not served by undermining resistance to the centuries-old oppression of women as a biological sex.

For women, the result is that their collective rights as a group are currently being undermined through the weaponisation of a post-modern identity politics, focused solely on the rights of individuals.

morningstaronline.co.uk/article/women-class-and-gender-%E2%80%93-communist-perspective[/quote]

Some more thoughts from the left:

https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1363/orthodoxy-and-its-discontents/

Here's another one

@MrsSlocombesPussy

Here's another one

Not in the slightest bit surprised.

This made me laugh.

A few years ago a GP surgery of my acquaintance in a UK university city was put in the position of fending off demands from a man of diverse gender identity who wanted a smear test performed. I do not know where he wanted the brush inserted.

@MrsSlocombesPussy

Here's another one

Where does India think the cervix is?

I couldn't show anyone my cervix without the aid of a medical bed, speculum and strong lighting.

Okay. Mumsnet have said they are looking at reinstating my post. Let's see.

@deadleaves

Brendan Clarke-Smith MP *@Bren4Bassetlaw6h* Only women have a cervix. There, I said it. It’s not difficult. Women also have a right to women-only spaces. Speaking up in defence of women’s rights doesn’t mean we can’t respect how others wish to live their lives

It shouldn't be difficult, no.

And so the Tories are waking up to the open goal. See also Javid earlier on. Expect much much more of this. And Labour will deserve the ridicule.

@Datun

I have a cervix. Get checked by the NHS every few years. Demeaning talking about it @AndrewMarr9. You absolutely know this a work-around way of calling women who are T men, leading into all the other bigotry. #Marr

This is the problem. Saying only women have cervices is not a 'work around'. It's not code, it's not an agenda, it's not reading between the lines.

It's a fact. It's a fact that certain people do not want us to say. We are not the ones with the agenda.

Absolutely. Willoughby’s interpretation is an absolute poster child for what a bad faith engagement that jumps immediately to the worst possible interpretation looks like.

It's inverted penile tissue that needs periodic testing for HPV-related cancer.

Well, cervix = neck so technically we all have a neck...

This didn't make me laugh. Have they all rehearsed this.

@donquixotedelamancha

India believes India has a cervix? The mind boggles!

The question is: who's cervix is it and where is the rest of them?

"It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again."

????

I suspect Indias understanding of what a cervix is, and what a cervix actually is, are two very different things.

I agree with a previous posters observation that India seems to be spiralling.