My 14 year old son got into trouble at school yesterday ...

[PippaOwl]

I don't profess to be an expert in all things gender and sex related but I've brought my eldest (now adult) daughter to know her boundaries and I've brought my 14 year old son up to (age appropriately so far!) know how we treat girls, how we behave on social media and all the other stuff surrounding that

A HUGE part of his school experience at the moment is being surrounded by girls and boys who are confused regarding their sexuality and their gender. I've always been very very clear with him on my views - if you have a penis you are a male and if you have a vagina you are female and that's that. I've also explained to him that some people feel trapped in the wrong body and therefore it's their absolute right to express themselves how they want and they deserve respect

Yesterday at school he was in a lesson and got involved in a discussion with a girl. He said to her that girls couldn't be boys and vice versa. She disagreed so a verbal argument ensued. (Not shouting or anything!) She told him to shut up and that he was talking rubbish so he told her to shut up too.

Next thing, he's being taken out of class by the student manager. Who's told him off and issued a 'penalty mark' against him for his views. He argued this and said he was right. She said ... and I quote ... ' the facts are that gender and your sex begin in the brain so you need to be aware of the facts of this before talking rubbish about how your genitals define your sex'

It's all been left now and he has this penalty mark against him (no big deal, but still.. he's a good pupil and he's not had this before!) but am I actually going mad? We have a student manager here who is saying having a penis doesn't make you a man - what your brain tells you does..

I'm unsure how to deal with my son too! Ive told him he must not be rude to anyone and I don't expect him to be telling people to shut up, so he's been told clearly about that. Ive also told him his view is entirely right.

Your thoughts?

Ask for a meeting with the student manager and head of biology? Might be interesting....

Well, your starter for ten is to go to the school and complain to anyone and everyone that having gender Critical views is protected in law, and your son's penalty mark must be removed.

Also, what has it come to that we actually have to point this out! FFS!

Ha ha @FluffMagnet - I may well do that!

I don't actually want to contact the school particularly unless I have to. Don't really fancy getting embroiled in the whole thing. But it just seems like madness to me. I'm trying to raise a son who's respectful and kind but I'm well aware that he will certainly express his views to the point of being punished

I would contact the school and explain you are more then happy to accept the penalty mark for him telling someone to shut up and the girls should also receive one but you are not happy for it to be given for him expressing his opinion. See what they say to that and go from there.

@pickingdaisies I just despair of it all.

I asked if the girl was maybe confused regarding her gender etc etc and if this was why she'd got so upset but he didn't know as he doesn't know her well. I don't want him upsetting 14 year old girls!

But equally why should he be punished with this 'intervention' for disagreeing with the student manager regarding your sex and gender being in the brain?

Excruciating situation, isn’t it. I sympathise. We are divided as a people, in what we believe the nature of gender is. It seems incredible that genitals are being ignored. It’s a new idea we are all having to swallow , or be stigmatised.

Your son has learned his current view is stigmatised as worthy of penalty.

Thought Police aren’t quite what George Orwell thought they would be…

The school is trying to brainwash your son, and they clearly think they are the thought police. I wouldn't let that go, personally.

@Hellocatshome

Do you know, I think I might. I may just email in and query it and ask if there's something I need to be aware of. It just shows as a penalty mark - no explanation. He's told me why he's got it.

So yeah, I'll accept it for him being rude as that's a no no. But I won't accept it for him expressing a view that's factually correct.

I've got second hand rage on your sons behalf.

Stupid fucking virtue signalling schools, teaching that view is dangerous to confused teenagers.

DS actually asked me in the car yesterday if I was transphobic. I said I hold the view that you cannot change your sex BUT I'm fully accepting of people being whoever that want to be - especially young people who are just being bombarded from all sides.

Dunno if that makes me transphobic? I don't think so. I believe in 'women and trans women' and 'men and trans men' ... that way we are all on the same page and know who we are referring to

It's just a minefield and it doesn't help that he is very knowing of his own mind!

I’d email. I know you don’t want to get involved but how much longer can we put up with our children being told straight up lies regarding biology to please others ?

I would also want the school to explain this fully in written form. I would want to see it in black and white before i planned my next step.

I wouldn't let this one go OP. If you do your son is going to be one of many who will either be brainwashed or penalised for having an opinion.

@Witchesbelazy yeah I don't want to email particularly - because then I have to give my views

But I think I almost can't resist so I'm going to email and just ask what the penalty has been issued for exactly and if I can add support at home. This will then force the student manager to have to tell me what's happened and what it stemmed from.

He's not a liar so I know why but I'll ask then to explain and then take it from there.

I bet he's annoyed her with his views and that's why she's issued it. He's told her she's wrong with the whole 'sex begins in the brain' thing and shes not enjoyed the challenge

I'll send over an email and politely enquire. It would be a normal thing for me to do - he's in year 10 and never had this penalty mark before, so it's not like we have a history of poor behaviour. He's considered a well mannered and engaged student in classes

I will report back!

Bad teachers used to throw chalk at you or sit you in the corner. Nowadays they attempt brainwashing.

Ho hum.

If the penalty is for saying "Shut up", then why was he the only one who was removed from the class and issued one?

I like your plan to email and ask what it was for. It's either being rude, in which case they were sexist 😉 or it's for holding a different opinion, one that happens to be a protected view!

@Hellocatshome

I would contact the school and explain you are more then happy to accept the penalty mark for him telling someone to shut up and the girls should also receive one but you are not happy for it to be given for him expressing his opinion. See what they say to that and go from there.

This. Although I, personally, wouldn't demand the same treatment of other pupil. Stick to your child.

Perhaps first ask for an explanation of what the penalty point is for, then let them explain themselves....

Oh I can well imagine him being belligerent and yep, I bet he was rude to this girl - probably in retaliation but who knows? He's a very typical teen. I've told him off about being rude. She apparently left the lesson in tears so he's clearly upset her with his comments. And I'm not happy about that at all.

I did ask how on earth they'd got on to discussing this in an art lesson but he wasn't too sure. She said something and he said ' nah, that's not right' and it all went from there

And if this intervention mark is for him being rude then that's fine. I'll bollock him a bit more or something - I don't want him being rude

But I know it's not for that ..

I think I would point out your support for free speech and not enforced ideology, that sex and gender are separate things and that gender critical viewpoints are protected in law. Explain to your son that this is a fevered and often irrational debate and that while many of his peers will agree with him, not many will say so, and more will feel that they must show their virtue by actively cancelling him.

Would he have got a mark for insisting God was real? Surely with Forstater it's the same - a protected belief and they can jog on. Jeez my DC go to a Catholic school and even they are allowed to disbelieve in God.

I'm so glad I'm not teaching PSHE this year, I'd probably end up being carpeted. Definitely email and ask for clarification and insist on a reply by email, not a phone call. Has the school been Stonewalled?

Hell no, I wouldn't be having that. He's done nothing wrong by holding those views.

Sex is surely about the role we play in sexual reproduction. You cannot change your role in that no matter how much you may want to. Live as if you were the other sex, sure, but there are some things that can't be changed and need to be come to terms with