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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Andrew Marr, Lib Dem leader what is wrong with the phrase woman: adult human female

298 replies

FemaleAndLearning · 19/09/2021 09:26

Sunday 19th Sept 925am.
He won't answer the question. Andrew Marr keeps pushing.

OP posts:
AnneElliott · 19/09/2021 09:57

I do think it is their policy- I think Ed was just infuriated at it being aired on national television!

somethinginoffensive · 19/09/2021 09:58

but I do hope Kier Starmer is watching and learning

being unable to agree with 99% of the population about the definition of the word 'woman' on national TV will make you look like an unelectable twat, Keir

Cailin66 · 19/09/2021 09:58

@Muttonindistress

I just watched this as well. Very impressed with Andrew Marr. And a discussion of the TRA attacks on Rosie Duffield in the paper review too.
Which paper?
MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/09/2021 09:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Helleofabore · 19/09/2021 09:59

Well Mishy, if your friends believe that, you would not be a very good friend unless you pointed out that as an ‘adult human female’ they did NOT get a blood transfusion from another adult human female who had been pregnant.

If your friends cannot admit the reality of their unique situation, they are also behind the times. We are assured most strenuously that trans people are not denying their biological sex anymore.

Maybe they haven’t got the memo yet.

somethinginoffensive · 19/09/2021 09:59

Oops, posted too soon. I was just agreeing with this comment. I might stick it on a postcard and send it to him.

sanluca · 19/09/2021 10:00

@MishyJDI

Most trans women I talk to identify readily as adult human females, and transmen as adult human males. So I don't really see the issue, other than it being a dog whistle for attempted crass segregation.
And that there is the problem. Not only is the word woman redefined to mean human being of either sex, but also adult human female means someone with a cervix, womb etc and someone with penis and testicles. Now that will really work well for a patriarchal society for the wankers but not at all for the bleeders.
MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/09/2021 10:01

The Sunday Times leading with the Rosie Duffield story - great accurate headline too:
Speaker's anger as extremists terrorise female Labour MP

Good to hear this being represented as the terrorism that it is.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 19/09/2021 10:02

Old Crone's link was pretty, I really fucked that up.

Must be my silly XX chromosomes making me incompetent or something.

Vargas · 19/09/2021 10:02

I'm so glad this issue is getting more and more sunlight. I don't normally watch Marr but im looking forward to watching this on catch-up! Bye bye Lib Dems.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/09/2021 10:02

@MrsOvertonsWindow

The Sunday Times leading with the Rosie Duffield story - great accurate headline too: Speaker's anger as extremists terrorise female Labour MP

Good to hear this being represented as the terrorism that it is.

Sorry - this was for Cailin66
CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/09/2021 10:03

@MishyJDI

Most trans women I talk to identify readily as adult human females, and transmen as adult human males. So I don't really see the issue, other than it being a dog whistle for attempted crass segregation.
Alternatively the transwomen I have known for 30+ years is certain he is an adult human male. And the transman who I have supported through all the surgery it is possible to have is equally certain she is an adult human female.

They are both trans individuals, both have socially transed, married in seemingly heterosexual partnership that they both acknowledge are actually same sex, gay marriages.

They don't lie to themselves, or to others. Sadly the more recent, more aggressive trans activism has had an incredibly negative impact on their everyday lives. They now feel far more uncomfortable, and angry, every day because their wish to live as they see fit has been badly eroded by those demanding more and more from a society that simply cannot square that circle.

Crass segregation? Or common sense and safeguarding?

frumpety · 19/09/2021 10:05

Is it really so hard to formulate a policy that says “women are women, Tw are TW, both have rights, these may at times conflict and we must be sure to protect both but not at the expense of women ” or some such?

Sounds fair.

EdgeOfACoin · 19/09/2021 10:06

@MishyJDI

Most trans women I talk to identify readily as adult human females, and transmen as adult human males. So I don't really see the issue, other than it being a dog whistle for attempted crass segregation.
But what is a 'female' then? What do they believe it means, if not the class of human that produces ova etc?

What are they identifying as, @MishyJDI?

Passmeamenuatthetottenham · 19/09/2021 10:08

@MishyJDI

Most trans women I talk to identify readily as adult human females, and transmen as adult human males. So I don't really see the issue, other than it being a dog whistle for attempted crass segregation.
Well, that's nice for them, but it doesn't make it true.
exwhyzed · 19/09/2021 10:10

@MishyJDI

Most trans women I talk to identify readily as adult human females, and transmen as adult human males. So I don't really see the issue, other than it being a dog whistle for attempted crass segregation.
I think once we reach the point where we have Marr robustly presenting it as 'an issue' on BBC One on a Sunday morning you must realise the 'only horrible terfs care about this' game is up?
JustSpeculation · 19/09/2021 10:12

Marr was good. He has his moments does Andrew Marr.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 19/09/2021 10:16

@MishyJDI

Most trans women I talk to identify readily as adult human females, and transmen as adult human males. So I don't really see the issue, other than it being a dog whistle for attempted crass segregation.
most males you know who like to conform to feminine stereotypes have the kind of bodies that can gestate a baby? how does that work then?

Oh yeah, it doesn't

littlbrowndog · 19/09/2021 10:20

I missed this. Just saw Khan saying the old statistic the 1in 4 trans teens attempt suicide and are thmost vulnerable ever

A couple of days after violence against women and girls should be treated the same way as terrorism

He was being asked about violent threats to a woman

Not about trans anything.

Violent threats to Rosie duffield. A woman

Cailin66 · 19/09/2021 10:20

Thanks Overton I have a subscription and had read that. Lot more sunlight, it’s great.

Original poster
FemaleAndLearning · 19/09/2021 10:23

@somethinginoffensive

Oops, posted too soon. I was just agreeing with this comment. I might stick it on a postcard and send it to him.
Great idea, I'll send him a postcard with a sticker on too!
OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 19/09/2021 10:23

That's Lib Dem party policy is it not? I seem to remember they made a statement as such. Ed should probably know that.

Thought so. Certainly anyone who thinks it, is bullied out the party.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 19/09/2021 10:26

This issue came up with someone (an evidently highly intelligent woman of 60 odd) who I was talking to at a do yesterday.

She dismissed the whole issue as ‘unimportant’ and something ‘just stirrred up by the Daily Mail’. I was frankly 😱
Especially since there was a major article about it in yesterday’s Times.

From other things she said it was evident that she’d never vote Tory, but she also dismissed the idea that this issue would lose both Lab and LDs a mass of women’s votes - unless they changed their stance.