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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Ed Davy on R4 Today - there should not be safe places for women

265 replies

42SrauvP · 17/09/2021 08:03

Quite jarring to hear him say it out loud but yes, this white man has stated love on the radio that there should be no spaces where biological males can’t go.
Just before 8am.

OP posts:
Freespeecher · 17/09/2021 19:19

Jaysmith71

Yes, I think for a lot of well-meaning people it's merely the next good cause. More and more people are having their 'They Live' moment when they put on the shades and consider the effects on safeguarding etc but we're a long way from the tipping point yet.

PumpkinSpiceWoman · 17/09/2021 19:25

This reply has been deleted

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nauticant · 17/09/2021 19:34

This is great. I only posted this a short while ago on a different thread but it works here too:

That's a familiar line I see trans activists spin around safeguarding all the time MonsignorMirth: if a safeguarding measure does not give 100% protection 100% of the time, it needs to be discarded.

OvaHere · 17/09/2021 19:40

You can't assume that eliminating everyone except cis women will ensure safety.

Around 98% of violent and sexual crime is committed by male people regardless of personal identity.

Female only spaces are low risk as long as they stay that way.

TheWeeDonkey · 17/09/2021 19:41

Ed Davey on LBC was unequivocal having listened to women's concerns about female single sex spaces being mixed sex and who feel threatened,

"I don't agree with them"

But at least he "listened with patience" so there's that I guess.

Maybe he's going for a new brand of politics when the aim isn't actually to get in Governement but just talk useless platitudes and look completely out of touch with society.

merrymouse · 17/09/2021 19:50

You can't assume that eliminating everyone except cis women will ensure safety.

I don’t know why or who would identify as ‘Cis’, but unless Ed Davey can explain what ‘trans’ means and who is excluded from that category, he is simply advocating for mixed sex spaces.

Artichokeleaves · 17/09/2021 19:52

You can't assume that eliminating everyone except cis women will ensure safety.

I could say for the eleventymillionth time that it's not solely about safety, it's what we do with the female humans who cannot use mixed sex spaces (and may not identify as the gender identity you're enforcing on them without their consent)

But I've been screaming this into the void for weeks and no one making this point ever seems to hear me.

Possibly I need to add more rainbow emojis.

Artichokeleaves · 17/09/2021 19:53

Oh and the whole 'should female people be considered autonomous humans who are allowed to group and do things by themselves, ever, at all, without male supervision or being required to centre male people at all times?' thing.

Because male supremacist much?

But I hold no hope out of that one being heard either.

merrymouse · 17/09/2021 19:54

Quite jarring to hear him say it out loud but yes, this white man has stated love on the radio that there should be no spaces where biological males can’t go.
Just before 8am.

And vice versa. So an elderly man struggling with prostrate issues will have to consider whether he wants to use a urinal in a unisex toilet.

merrymouse · 17/09/2021 19:55

Prostate!!!

somethinginoffensive · 17/09/2021 19:55

From what I heard he just stated simply that women shouldn't have spaces free of biological males. There's no other way of being human other than being "biological", males as adults are men.

So what he said is that women should not have any women-only spaces.

It matters not what criteria he is using for which men should be allowed in women's spaces, in principle he thinks women saying no to men should not be respected.

Artichokeleaves · 17/09/2021 19:57

Of course no one's asked the obvious question either which is does Davy think that male people should be allowed to have places and spaces of their own where biological women can't insist on being too?

Odd that, isn't it?

NewMutiny · 17/09/2021 20:06

Radio 4's news programmes today have really been pushing the 'Ed sets out his stall to appeal to disillusioned Tory voters in the south of England' line.

Now call me a cynic but I can't see the people of Kent and Sussex listening to this and thinking, 'This man makes so much sense!'

Artichokeleaves · 17/09/2021 20:13

Radio 4's news programmes today have really been pushing the 'Ed sets out his stall to appeal to disillusioned Tory voters in the south of England' line.

But not the female ones.

51% Ed.....

Vote for us and have no rights! It'll be great!

NewMutiny · 17/09/2021 20:32

Well none of them really. For very different reasons than most of the posters on this board (because a whole variety of people across a wide political spectrum believe in actual reality) but Conservatives do tend to be...ah...conservative.

Franca123 · 17/09/2021 22:10

Not once in my entire life has someone told me that men should be allowed in the ladies. Not once. And I'd say I'm in a Liberal bubble. Not once has a real life person told me a man can turn into a woman. Not once. Whenever the subject has come up, at best a get some garbled nonsense about moving away from the binary. But no one has ever asserted that TWAW to my face. Even my ridiculous woke workplace would never actually say it.

NewlyGranny · 17/09/2021 23:31

The only time he felt able to utter the word women was in the context of saying TWAW. The rest of us are clearly chopped liver.

Stopsnowing · 17/09/2021 23:32

At this point I don’t understand why we don’t just make everything mixed sex. Because just because a man thinks he is a woman doesn’t make it so. So go mixed sex and be up front about it. Because this is the logical result of what the t r a s want. Or would it be less attractive than transwomen being in a female sex space?

PanicPrevention · 18/09/2021 01:25

"Maybe he's going for a new brand of politics when the aim isn't actually to get in Governement but just talk useless platitudes and look completely out of touch with society."
Hardly new, Labour have been pretending to be the oppostion for 11 years.
If men can go anywhere, how does that help transwomen?
The argument being the mens are so unsafe, why? Who is making them unsafe?
If men are gonna rape us any way, what is making the mens more dangerous than the ladies?
Cant transwomen just call the police if they are assaulted?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/09/2021 01:38

I think it's more likely that they are appealing to disenchanted Labour voters.

TonyThreePies · 18/09/2021 01:41

Ed Davey is my local MP. We've had conversations about this before and he's set in stone. Is there anything I can do to help him see the other side of the debate? I've been shot down in flames so far.

Bigniddy · 18/09/2021 03:11

I think there's a lot of misrepresentations here about what he said. I don't think he ever insinuated it was OK for the perpetrator of abuse to follow a woman into a safe space.

I don't like Ed Davey and think he's bowing to the politically woke on the trains issue but I would tend to agree with him on the issue that if there are safe spaces, they should be available to all.

There are all sorts of vulnerable people and just because more women are injured due to DV shouldn't mean that the smaller number of vulnerable men who may be in an equally traumatic situation shouldn't have access to these spaces because of the actions of those men who are rotten.

PanicPrevention · 18/09/2021 03:34

If a safe space is available to all, how is it safe?

He was asked if women should have single sex spaces. His answer was "no".
There is no dillydallying around that..
The reasons he has for saying it may be up for debate.
Id rather not waste my time wondering about the motives of a halfwit misogynist.
I just wont vote for his shitty party which is neither liberal or democratic. Its a scam. Not a good one.
Everyone knows why we segregate by sex and if you're old enough to be on mumsnet, kids or not and dont know, count yourself as one of the very privileged women on the whole of this planet.

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2021 03:48

I see the 'women and girls are going to get attacked anyway so what's the point of saying female only' argument has come up.

It's a very popular one. Lol OJ has retweeted a post saying that very recently.

If this argument is the best one then well shows how weak the position is.

I also note Davy said biological men full stop. Not just ones with trans IDs. That's going a step further than currently being pushed.

Anyway.

Telling women and girls that they are vulnerable to sex offences from males is hardly news to us. Telling them that because of this vulnerability, there's no point keeping males out at all is just so utterly crass it's mind blowing.

You're going to get raped anyway is such a positive message isn't it! Thanks!

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2021 03:56

The issues that are never addressed.

  • There is no way to tell which males are trans and which aren't
  • The segregation by sex in some circs is due to reasons directly related to sex. Facilities, the large number of creepy men about, comfort etc. If there's no reason to separate by sex in some cases then surely there's no reason to separate at all in any circs. I don't think that's what trans orgs want though. Why not?
  • as ever the reality for women and girls of the range and frequency of weird men being creepy is entirely ignored despite it being raised over and over. No matter how much we go on about it. Men don't want to hear they don't want to know. In the end they don't care tbh

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