Not enjoying the Janey Godley pile on....

[rabbitwoman]

Haven't seen a thread on this, although there is a bit on the end of the NS thread at the moment.

But Godley was very outspoken against anyone questioning the trans rights agenda, and is someone who gleefully and happily reports, blocks and let's lose a barrage of very foul mouthed abuse to anyone who disagrees with her on twitter.

However, I am not enjoying her twitter take down this evening. I would much prefer a complete turn around and all the oldest voices to use this as an opportunity to call for a more reasonable debate.

.......

@ISpyCobraKai

Yep, free speech is something I'm all for, but it comes with consequences.

.... there are many many comedians, though, who manage to be absolutely hilarious, who make you cry with laughter without being so vile and abhorrent in what they say.

There are people on twitter who voice very strong opinions without the need for insults, threats or abuse - I am one of them. I am GCAF on twitter, under my own name and have no fear because I am ever respectful, and base all my arguments in evidence - no one would ever be able to go through my history and find anything I could get the sack over.

I am often bloody hilarious, too.....

Yeah, okay, I am beginning to back track a bit here. I guess everyone is conditioned to feel sorry for people who are showing distress, even if it is self pity. I feel a bit sorry for janey but I guess if she had ever encountered me on twitter she would have been vicious and vile and not cared if I had been hurt by it....

I don't feel sorry for her at all.

She's the face of a govt campaign. This stuff she's said has emerged. Hardly surprising plenty of people are saying wtf.

And yes of course anyone can say or joke about what they like.

But that doesn't mean that people who think it's totally out of line should not say what they think.

https://twitter.com/leyanelle/status/1436400686586081281?s=21

Oh dear. This is looking like a serious f* up on Sturgeon's government's part. They dismissed a complaint about her back in June.

From the above tweet:

"I wrote to your government in June regarding Janey Godley's racism and gave examples, including archived links to tweets. Your govt told me you were fine with it, & dismissively told me if I had a problem I should report it as a hate crime."

"Zero Waste Scotland carried out the necessary due diligence and were satisfied with the findings"

🤦🏻‍♀️

.... there are many many comedians, though, who manage to be absolutely hilarious, who make you cry with laughter without being so vile and abhorrent in what they say.

I don't really think this is relevant. Yes, some comedians have a different kind of humour, some are quite gentle, etc.

Some use humour that highly contentious, and if it didn't hit the mark could be deeply offensive. But if they do hit the mark it's not only funny, it's a powerful tool for social critisism.

Fifty years ago the humour that got people in trouble was about different things - The Life of Brian, say. That hit the mark. Another film might not. But would we say, maybe they just should have used some other approach? One that wouldn't be at risk of putting people off?

Any comedian is going to miss the mark sometimes. You can't skate along that edge without sometimes going over. If they have to be safe, they are going to have to be silent.

Godley's real problems are that controversial comedians aren't usually the right face for a government to put to the public, that she is herself a proponent of cancel culture which also trying to claim the freedom of her comedic role, and worst of all, she rarely hits the mark and so isn't very funny (though I suppose that might be a matter of taste.)

Oh for fucking fucks sake.

And Yousef tries to deflect with don't make this a partisan issue.

I'm not Scottish and I know there are political etc divides.

However this points to... What we always said would happen with the new hate crime law. It's being leveraged against those the govt disagrees with and those who support them get shit like this handwaved away.

The brazenness of it. It's indefensible.

The tweet about the stag do prostitute dwarf and blow jobs is absolutely sick.

Watching NS on c4 now.

Woke is used as a pejorative.
Well so what. Hardly new. Like

Bleeding heart lefty
Political correctness gorn mad
Tree hugger
Etc etc

feel a bit sorry for janey but I guess if she had ever encountered me on twitter she would have been vicious and vile and not cared if I had been hurt by it....

Doea that matter, though? You choose your own response based on your own ethics. Not on someone else's. At least, that's how I try to approach it.

NRFT but Live By the Tweet Die By the Tweet. Zero sympathy from me.

The cancel culture JG advocated has bitten her on the arse and good riddance. What’s more, it’s a bad news story for cancel culture. It’s possible people will be less quick to cancel others if they think it might happen to them at some point. So win-win really.

The Hate Crime Bill is ludicrous and Orwellian. By contrast Twitter popularity/public perception is brutal and lonely. Neither is to be recommended really.

You are very wrong. Her tweets were outrageous.

People can and should say what they like and joke about what they like.

(Well hate speech but that's well can't be bothered to get into it).

If their jokes target people that are different to them in a horrible way. There can be consequences.

If enough people like their jokes and they are a performer then they will get an audience and earn money.

There are comedians who I like but get a lot of awful things posted at them etc due to who they are/ what they joke about.

In the end it's the audience who decides. And whether they get airtime on telly is down to the audience numbers generally if no public funding.

As long as there is an audience for racism mysogyny etc then there will be comedians that they want to watch.

So that's one thing.

In this case the massive problem is the actions and reaction of the Scottish govt. Handwave. Not good enough. Stop talking about this partisan division.

On top of the enforcement of the new hate crime laws when it comes to certain topics/ types of people. But not others. And the fact that leaving those people out of protection by hate crime law was highly contraversial and they would not countenance including.

And then that they got that letter and said piss off. Well I mean fuck the lot of them really.

These politicians all over the UK (except NI? don't know tbh). Putting trans stuff as such a massive priority. Even though the problems plenty of it are totally obvious. And have already presented serious problems. (Eg Barbie k). Spending so much interview time and govt time on it. They must know that loads of women (and men) think it's nonsense and in some situations dangerous nonsense.

Why??

Just remembered. A Scottish govt department wrote individually to website owners hosting articles on Barbie k and told them to take them down or risk court. It was a govt dept unrelated to the situation in any way.

And it worked. Info has just.. gone. All the detail at the time etc.

I went as far as to look at the govt site, justice area. They publish all the court proceedings. Barbie k comes back with nothing. And we know they have been to court at least once and strong indication is in the female estate.

This is really really extreme stuff. State censorship to protect... Them? Or an extraordinarily violent criminal who wants to attack women, and has. Just to cover up where BK is in prison? Why???

Sorry for going off topic. But this is incredibly concerning that the govt are doing this.

It's a difficult line between letting horrible people say their thing so others can make their mind up.

And concern about audience feeling encouraged in what they think.

It does go both ways though. There are plenty of comedians who those who enjoy a good racist etc joke would be happy to never see or hear again.

In the end if the audience wasn't there then certain types of joke would vanish. The comedians aren't the cause iyswim. They're a symptom.

Let her do her thing. With or without whatever criticism.

The Scot govt hiring her for high profile campaign etc is the massive issue here. IMO.

NiceGerbil
'A Scottish govt department wrote individually to website owners hosting articles on Barbie k and told them to take them down or risk court. It was a govt dept unrelated to the situation in any way'

• Can you expand on this? Where did you hear / read about it?

It's true for sure that there can be really bigoted people whose comedy appeals to other bigots. Though actually I think the UK, and Canada, don't have a ton of this.

But I really really don't trust the right on types people to recognize the difference between humour that is racist, that is edgy, ironic, etc. There are too many examples of such people targeting things, especially older stuff, that was explicitly anti-racist, because they don't have the nous to recognize that it's not meant to be a positive depiction.

@OperationDessertStorm

“Removing them from communities” sounds sinister as fuck.

I agree.

Lobster who knows what stand up etc is going down well in pubs all over the place.
Or maybe online in groups.

Not widely visible doesn't mean not happening.

Can you give me an example of older stuff that was racist but in an ironic way and has been attacked? Not sure what sort of thing you mean!

When it comes to ironic but being taken straight up. Al Murray is a brilliant example of this.

Milady are you familiar with BK? If not it might take a while!

Blimey, so it was all classified as "tougue in cheek humour" as recently as June?

Now it's not? Exactly who has their tongue in whose cheeks in this humourous relationship?

@NiceGerbil

Can you give me an example of older stuff that was racist but in an ironic way and has been attacked? Not sure what sort of thing you mean!

When it comes to ironic but being taken straight up. Al Murray is a brilliant example of this.

Sure, Fawlty Towers is a good example, people seemed unable to understand that certain views were being made fun of. Similarly All in the Family though you'd have to be a complete idiot I'd have thought.

But it's not just an online thing, either, I've seen it really frequently with university students in person.

Not seen all in the family.

I vaguely remember the Fawlty towers thing. Wasn't it the BBC who pulled the episode from iPlayer or something? And there was a hooha and everyone pretty much said wtf. And the BBC put it back.

My feel and recollection is that it was a BBC decision that came as a surprise. Not that there was a campaign or anything!

And like I say it goes both ways eg Al Murray

University students

Since when were they seen as any kind of group in general that represents any kind of wider view etc?

Remember the young ones

@PlayYouLikeAShark

[[https://twitter.com/leyanelle/status/1436400686586081281?s=21]]

Oh dear. This is looking like a serious f* up on Sturgeon's government's part. They dismissed a complaint about her back in June.

From the above tweet:

"I wrote to your government in June regarding Janey Godley's racism and gave examples, including archived links to tweets. Your govt told me you were fine with it, & dismissively told me if I had a problem I should report it as a hate crime."

What?

Are there no depths to this?! I thought they'd simply never bothered to check.

So they were told (I won't be repeating the quotes) by a member of the public what language she'd used and they carried on endorsing her. Well, this looks like total contempt for her targets on the part of the Scottish Government. How far in does the rot go?!

I'm actually staggered by this. I didn't see this development coming at all.

@NiceGerbil

Can you give me an example of older stuff that was racist but in an ironic way and has been attacked? Not sure what sort of thing you mean!

When it comes to ironic but being taken straight up. Al Murray is a brilliant example of this.

Can you give me an example of older stuff that was racist but in an ironic way and has been attacked? Not sure what sort of thing you mean!

Alf Garnett, the racist and misogynist working class Tory from the 70s comedy, Til Death Us Do Part. From Wiki:

Writer Johnny Speight often commented that the character was supposed to be a figure of ridicule, but admitted that not all viewers saw the satiric elements of the character. Speight defended the Alf Garnett character, saying: "If you do the character correctly, he just typifies what you hear - not only in pubs but in golf clubs around the country. To make him truthful he's got to say those things, and they are nasty things. But I feel as a writer that they should be out in the open so we can see how daft these comparisons are."