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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Not enjoying the Janey Godley pile on....

315 replies

rabbitwoman · 09/09/2021 20:55

Haven't seen a thread on this, although there is a bit on the end of the NS thread at the moment.

But Godley was very outspoken against anyone questioning the trans rights agenda, and is someone who gleefully and happily reports, blocks and let's lose a barrage of very foul mouthed abuse to anyone who disagrees with her on twitter.

However, I am not enjoying her twitter take down this evening. I would much prefer a complete turn around and all the oldest voices to use this as an opportunity to call for a more reasonable debate.

.......

OP posts:
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RoyalCorgi · 10/09/2021 17:05

IMO starting a joke by saying a nazi is the worst thing someone can be isn’t promoting nazism.

Well, it's a point of view. According to Wikipedia:

'Meechan received press coverage when he posted a video showing him teaching his girlfriend's dog how to raise its paw in the manner of a Nazi salute, and to react to the phrase "Do you wanna gas the Jews?"'

Am struggling a bit to see that as not celebrating Nazism.

RoyalCorgi · 10/09/2021 17:06

Sorry, ItllBe - posted before seeing your post.

RoyalCorgi · 10/09/2021 17:13

I think we should all acknowledge that freedom of speech is a difficult issue. As a general principle, I don't think we should be prosecuting people for saying stuff that is offensive. I don't think Janey Godley should be prosecuted, vile though her tweets were, and I probably don't think Nazi pug guy should be prosecuted, though I find his stuff vile.

But we have to acknowledge that this isn't just about whether we prosecute offensive stuff or not, but about what we categorise as offensive. It's absolutely absurd to argue that Marion Millar's tweet of a suffragette ribbon is offensive in the way that the Nazi pug was offensive. Janey Godley's tweets were, in my view, more at the Nazi pug end of the spectrum than at the Marion Millar end, given that Millar's tweet was entirely innocuous.

In other words, I could at least see a case for prosecuting Nazi pug guy even if I didn't agree with it. There is no case at all for prosecuting Millar.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 10/09/2021 17:18

Millar's tweet was entirely innocuous.

Given the (sensible) decision about not discussing the charges, I'm somewhat baffled as to what the charges against Millar are now, apart from knowing that it's not the original grounds but now reflects (?) her comments about the process of being interviewed about those tweets.

Sophoclesthefox · 10/09/2021 17:38

Agree, royalcorgi, you’ve articulated what I am thinking.

Butchyrestingface · 10/09/2021 18:03

Her panto performance was pulled earlier today and now East Ren Council have pulled her supposedly sell-out appearance at a local festival in October.

Can't say I'm overcome with sympathy for her.

dementedma · 10/09/2021 18:16

She deserves to be on the receiving end,as she's been quite happy to dish it out. Vile woman.

Original poster
rabbitwoman · 10/09/2021 18:24

It is hard to know how she will be able to come back from this, and hard to know exactly what of what she said was sincere apology and what was just saying what she thought might get her out of hot water.

What WOULD be a good apology?

OP posts:
SparklingLime · 10/09/2021 18:27

@rabbitwoman

It is hard to know how she will be able to come back from this, and hard to know exactly what of what she said was sincere apology and what was just saying what she thought might get her out of hot water.

What WOULD be a good apology?

An apology is necessary but of limited value and utterly inadequate in this case.

If you have sent repeated bullying statements over years and as an adult, you cannot undo this with an apology.

SparklingLime · 10/09/2021 18:29

… however well-phrased or sincerely meant.

Additionally, an apology only triggered by criticism and withdrawal of work/reputation is of limited value.

Butchyrestingface · 10/09/2021 18:33

@rabbitwoman

It is hard to know how she will be able to come back from this, and hard to know exactly what of what she said was sincere apology and what was just saying what she thought might get her out of hot water.

What WOULD be a good apology?

I think her apology was about as good as it could be. Waited til she was bang to rights, of course.

But the apology is almost academic. She's an inappropriate spokesperson for a Scot Gov campaign. As for her gigs being cancelled and loss of income, well, nothing she didn't holler with regards to others in the public spotlight whose views she simply doesn't agree with.

Beyond that, I don't agree with bullying and targeted harassment of the woman. I just hope she disappears off into the sunset a better and chastened person.

MyBadHabitsLeadToYou · 10/09/2021 18:50

Sturgeon’s response to this makes me so angry. As does Humza backing her up. What about that nursery, Humza? The racial abuse you claim to have suffered since? Are these also to be swept under the carpet as “things that happen”? No? Didn’t think so.

The utter, utter hypocrisy. This country is a joke.

NiceGerbil · 10/09/2021 18:52

I'm really taken aback by sturgeons comments. Just hand waving the things written away.

Yes anyone can think what they want and write it on Twitter or say it in real life etc.

What she wrote many people will find abhorrent though so when highlighted there will be a reaction.

Given the Scottish govt hate crime stance the reaction shows massive bias in who will come into the frame and what has been said.

Male people are male. A fact. Court.

Outrageous racist comments. Ah well you know so what.

Awful.

merrymouse · 10/09/2021 18:59

Given that she wasn’t very well known outside Scotland, how much will this matter if her audience don’t care?

KittenKong · 10/09/2021 19:05

They do care. And she has been on national tv (Have I Got News for You). She is a national embarrassment. Like we need another one 🙄

PlayYouLikeAShark · 10/09/2021 19:15

I'm very surprised by Humza Yousaf's response. Very surprised.

LobsterNapkin · 10/09/2021 19:19

@ItllBeOverByChristmas

You do realise that nazi pug guy spent most of the video trying to get the pug to react to him saying "Gas the Jews!" Not exactly comparable to most people's feeble "ve have vays of making you talk!" jokes.
Which is still not promoting any kind of fascism or Nazis.

In really bad taste, sure, not especially funny, absolutely. But there's no indication that it was pro-fascism and it would likely be offensive to anyone who really was a fascist.

MyBadHabitsLeadToYou · 10/09/2021 19:19

Sadly I am not, shark. Furious. But not surprised.

TedImgoingmad · 10/09/2021 19:25

What WOULD be a good apology?

It's not anyone on here's place, or Sturgeon's place for that matter, to accept an apology not meant for them. She attacked many people with many different slurs. None of them are the people currently leaping to her defence. It's up to the subjects of her racism and disablism to decide whether they have been apologised to adequately.

All Sturgeon, the SNP and any other bystanders have to decide is whether her contrition makes her someone you would trust going forward and want to associate with. My view is that a 60 year old who engaged in the sort of "banter" JG has indulged in for many years is unlikely to be a sincere character now, and certainly not a reformed one.

LobsterNapkin · 10/09/2021 19:31

I'm generally in favour of free speech, but also believe you need to accept that this comes with consequences and accountability. Comedians as a group seem to be very keen to ensure that they are allowed to treat as comedy (however unfunny their brand of comedy might be) any topic they choose, whilst at the same time, policing the discourse of everyone else in public life. That's how Frankie Boyle gets away with it. He has the backing of his community, and appears that so does JG.

Do comedians in general think that? I know some do for sure - but I wouldn't have said it was all of them by any means.

It's totally hypocritical when they are.

ISpyCobraKai · 10/09/2021 20:20

Yep, free speech is something I'm all for, but it comes with consequences.

ScreamingMeMe · 10/09/2021 20:28

The whole point of Count Dankula's (nazi pug guy's) joke was getting a cute little dog to do something absolutely abhorrent. He did it to annoy his girlfriend (the owner of the pug).

David Baddiel supported Dankula so he is being consistent here.

Glinner was a critic of Dankula, but has since admitted he got it wrong. I was similar: was disgusted by the joke, bit horrified that he was taken to court over it.

I don't like Frankie Boyle or his comedy at all, but he does more than just throw slurs at people.

NiceGerbil · 10/09/2021 20:31

For me it's the role working with the govt that is a problem when she's said things like that.

Given their stance on hate speech etc.

And sturgeons comments oh well you know comedy. What?!

KimikosNightmare · 10/09/2021 20:42

@PlayYouLikeAShark

I'm very surprised by Humza Yousaf's response. Very surprised.
I'm not in the least surprised. Godley is an SNP supporter.
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 10/09/2021 20:51

All Sturgeon, the SNP and any other bystanders have to decide is whether her contrition makes her someone you would trust going forward and want to associate with. My view is that a 60 year old who engaged in the sort of "banter" JG has indulged in for many years is unlikely to be a sincere character now, and certainly not a reformed one.

This. It appears that the fee for the ads was a poisoned chalice; without that endorsement, her tweets would never have been investigated. I wonder if there are friends of Janey's in the decision making process who now feel a bit guilty that they put such a spotlight on her.