Not enjoying the Janey Godley pile on....

[rabbitwoman]

Haven't seen a thread on this, although there is a bit on the end of the NS thread at the moment.

But Godley was very outspoken against anyone questioning the trans rights agenda, and is someone who gleefully and happily reports, blocks and let's lose a barrage of very foul mouthed abuse to anyone who disagrees with her on twitter.

However, I am not enjoying her twitter take down this evening. I would much prefer a complete turn around and all the oldest voices to use this as an opportunity to call for a more reasonable debate.

.......

Not really - one of the reasons I objected to the Hate Crime bill was because it would have exactly this effect. I don't think anyone should be prosecuted under it. Godley said horrible things, while criticising others for their moral standards. Hypocrisy and being offensive is unpleasant, but it shouldn't be illegal.

I really do agree with Voltaire on this. (Or whoever the quote originated with).

quoteinvestigator.com/2015/06/01/defend-say/

Okay, maybe not to the death. But the general principle stands.

@ArabellaScott

Everyone - quick - identify as a comedian.

Will this work for Marion Millar? The other women who've lost their jobs, been doxxed, threatened, arrested?

Exactly. As always the clever women of MN are there before me!

I have a vague feeling that women who've been doxxed, sacked etc. will be told that they're just not the right sort of comedian.

And it's fascinating to see how exculpations produce further complications that will, however, remain unexamined by those who choose to apply their power to redeem or exonerate others in a very partial fashion.*

I watched the conversation between Julie Bindel and Claire Heuchan about Bindel's book. Along the way, I learned that Owen Jones had defended (to me) egregious behaviour by three judges (watching pornography in court time).

Full interview:

Owen Jones segment:

Owen Jones' article:

Three judges were recently sacked for watching porn on the job. None of it was illegal, but they were still publicly embarrassed and dismissed. Yes, there’s clearly a sound argument that judges should be doing their jobs, not getting off on porn. Fair enough, but there’s all sorts of procrastination that goes on in the workplace. Who knows, maybe an otherwise tense judge seeking a quick bit of relief will concentrate better. Surely someone should at least commission some research into it.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/30/simon-danczuk-mp-watched-porn-who-cares

The comedian was Andrew Lawrence Gimlisaxe.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Lawrence_(comedian)#2021_racism_controversy

I wonder whether a contrite apology from him would undo his cancelling? I suspect not. That to me demonstrates one of the problems, cancel culture is extraordinarily unforgiving but miraculously some people who play the right sort of game can qualify and be rehabilitated.

[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]I have a vague feeling that women who've been doxxed, sacked etc. will be told that they're just not the right sort of comedian.

And it's fascinating to see how exculpations produce further complications that will, however, remain unexamined by those who choose to apply their power to redeem or exonerate others in a very partial fashion.*

I watched the conversation between Julie Bindel and Claire Heuchan about Bindel's book. Along the way, I learned that Owen Jones had defended (to me) egregious behaviour by three judges (watching pornography in court time).

Full interview:

Owen Jones segment:

Owen Jones' article:

Three judges were recently sacked for watching porn on the job. None of it was illegal, but they were still publicly embarrassed and dismissed. Yes, there’s clearly a sound argument that judges should be doing their jobs, not getting off on porn. Fair enough, but there’s all sorts of procrastination that goes on in the workplace. Who knows, maybe an otherwise tense judge seeking a quick bit of relief will concentrate better. Surely someone should at least commission some research into it.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/30/simon-danczuk-mp-watched-porn-who-cares[/quote]
Surely the fact the judges were watching porn speaks to the way they view women and possible bias from that - particularly if they are watching porn which degrades women before having a female defendant?

That OJ defends this surprises me very little - he is a misogynist to (to coin a phrase) his fingertips.

I don't care about JG being the subject of a pile on. She's participated in many and is an unpleasant piece of work.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-58513670

I think her being a vocal supporter of Scottish Independence was the trigger

Maybe, but if I were the U.K. government I wouldn’t choose somebody with very partisan views on Brexit to deliver a public health message about Covid. I’d assume it would be a turn off to at least half the population.

Who's behind Janet Godley? She's not clever or talented enough to have got to the position she's in with such a huge profile.

Her agent is SCA, which is owned by Tommy Shephard. He's an SNP MP who runs comedy clubs. Presumably that's how she got the gig of being Sturgeon's "alter ego"?

That's interesting, Arabella. Presumably, it is "dignified" because it was her speech writer who wrote the apology?

@EmbarrassingAdmissions

Godley: This prompted a statement from Ms Godley on Twitter saying: “I deserve all the criticism that comes my way.” She also said that as an “outspoken comedian” she felt like she could get away with saying anything but that she was “completely wrong”. … Sturgeon: "She’s a comedian, as she said herself she thought that gave her license to say things that she now accepts were completely out of order and unacceptable.

This is reading as an integrated PR policy.

It is, however, wondering where Godley's thinking was on Linehan, or do comedy writers not qualify for the same pass as self-declared comedians.

If Marion Millar were to self-id as a comedian and frame her comments in that context (the ones that I understand to be the basis for the court case) would that be sufficient to exculpate her and earn redemption from SNP figures?

This is an important point - Sturgeon was 'deeply offended' by a Tory MSP who shouted out 'not if you are English' when Sturgeon was speaking about ensuring Scotland was an 'inclusive & welcoming' place (in response to the outrage at the vile sectarian singing of men accompanied by police while 'in the act' of singing offensive anti-catholic & anti-Irish songs). She was raging after that comment & the Tory MSP made a fulsome apology & withdrew her remarks. And here she is, effectively shrugging her shoulders at what Godley has said because she thinks the apology is enough.

Sturgeon is (like many in the SNP) performatively progressive & seems willing to give the benefit of the doubt when it's someone (still) in her good graces.

Godley will be suitably rehabilitated in a short time as Sturgeon has signalled that it's not that bad and anyway, she's said sorry.

Time we all just moved along, eh?

I should add - the reason I say Sturgeon's offence is performative is that SNP led Glasgow City Council has approved 34 orange marches in Glasgow next month. These marches will be as bad/worse than the police escorted group that 'outraged' Sturgeon & thus she was 'deeply offended' by the Tory MSP comment as she tried to present as sincere - claiming to want to tackle the sectarianism while doing nothing about the 34 marches approved by her party's councillors.

Sturgeon will do anything for a photo op/headline & has zero qualms how contradictory her public comments turn out to be.

This was how it all happened, I think? Rangers fans, who'd been arrested for singing racist songs, found Godley's tweets.

But yes, it's all in group vs out group.

Sorry, not the same rangers fans who'd been arrested, I phrased that badly. Some were arrested, others found those tweets to prove the double standard.

I note that when it is a political ally Nicola shrugs it off with "these things happen"

but devises hate crime laws to punish political opponents

She is a racist.

Of course there is going to be a pile on when the Scottish Government is paying money to a racist to do public health adverts.

Can Marion Millar use the "these things happen" defence or is it only available to members of the ruling party?

@NotTerfNorCis

Why has this suddenly happened? People digging up old tweets and attacking?

She received £12k from the SNP to star in a Covid information advert. So I suspect that some anti SNP bod(s) have done the digging.

Like I said in the other thread (this one www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4344113-Nicola-Sturgeon-shouts-shame-on-you-to-Tory-MSP-who-mentioned-last-week-s-demo ) I don't agree with cancel culture or piling on somebody, and I haven't in her case. But I'm only human and have felt some schadenfreude over this. She is vociferously supportive of TRAs and has orchestrated many pile ons herself. Maybe it'll make her think on.

@ArabellaScott

This was how it all happened, I think? Rangers fans, who'd been arrested for singing racist songs, found Godley's tweets.

But yes, it's all in group vs out group.

Ah right!

I’m not sure I buy this “but I’m a comedian!” Approach.

Isn’t that just a variation on insulting someone, then if they get upset, telling them “it was just a joke”? In our personal lives, we all know that’s a bullshit excuse, because we know with these types of “joke”, the intent was always to provoke upset, and it’s a common tactic of passive aggressive bullies.

Also, Twitter isn’t a comedy venue. Context is shorn- anything outside your letter count that you think provides context, won’t do that if people go looking. So obviously, people should tweet with that in mind, shouldn’t they?

I also can’t get worked up about a Twitter Robespierre being eaten by her own. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Twitter mobs and spats are idiotic, and a grown woman should be embarrassed about getting caught up in them, from either side.

Ooops, pressed post too soon. It goes without saying that I think her tweets were vile and unfunny.

@Gimlisaxe

I'm generally in favour of free speech, but also believe you need to accept that this comes with consequences and accountability. Comedians as a group seem to be very keen to ensure that they are allowed to treat as comedy (however unfunny their brand of comedy might be) any topic they choose, whilst at the same time, policing the discourse of everyone else in public life. That's how Frankie Boyle gets away with it. He has the backing of his community, and appears that so does JG.

I am not sure how I feel about using this type of thing in comedy. I can't think of his name, but one comedian (not well known) tweeted a racist tweet after the Euros (England VS Italy, think it was the Euros) and based on that and a follow up tweet, theatres started cancelling his tour. While it is good to make a stand, you then have someone like Roy Chubby Brown and Jim Davidson who are still touring, they seem to make the distinction that if you are bringing in the crowds then its fine. If you don't racism is not aceptable.

The thing is if people dont pay to see them, then they wouldn't get booked, I am not sure if it is that simple but to me it seems to be. There are some very funny right winged comedians out there who are not racist and don't make a career out of insulting minority groups.

Sorry, just to be clear, I don't think cancelling per se because you don't like someone's views is a good thing. I am actually in favour of people airing their views and allowing other people to make up their own minds about them. What annoys me is that comedians don't seem to think that we are allowed to form a view of them based on their words. They use "comedy" as a shield. An openly misogynist public figure would be (rightly) criticised and possibly lose work as a result. An openly misogynist comedian like Frankie Boyle is shielded by the notion that, because the words came in the form of a joke, they are exempt from criticism - and that anyone not finding them funny are the problematic ones, who "don't understand comedy" or some such bullshit. We are not meant to believe that Frankie actually really is a misogynist, silly women! And similarly, the supporters of JG want us to believe she is not a racist.

As well as the racist and disablist comments she's made I think, some women in Scotland especially, don't have much sympathy for JG is due to the way she has attacked GC women. Janey has had vile abuse on Twitter from fans of a certain football team and many women, myself included, stepped in to defend her. It's some of the most hateful stuff I've ever seen there. Fast forward 2 or 3 years and she's abusing those same women because she's now a "trans ally". She actually had me blocked, having had no interaction with her around trans issues, unblocked me to call me a transphobic c*t then blocked me again. This is something she does regularly. Janey has had a hard life, survived abuse and lost her mother to a violent partner and still can't, or won't, acknowledge women's opinions on single sex spaces, refuges and prisons.
She's gloated over women being banned from Twitter, deplatformed and losing their livelihoods all in the name of being an ally. People are therefore finding it difficult to feel any sympathy for her.

For those wondering why now, what’s the context, a tabloid newspaper the daily record tried to take down a football blog by going through their Twitter history and the football blog fought back by doing the same to the tabloid’s journalists. Now it’s open season on all Twitter accounts on all public figures in Scotland. And that’s all for the good.

@OvaHere