16 yo DS called me a TERF

[Skatastic]

He (formally she) came our as trans at the beginning of the year and we've done everything we can to support this. We call him his preferred pronouns, use his preferred name, listen to his woes.

Had a massive argument with him the other day and he called me a TERF. Other highlights were that when I said I don't want to be described as CIS I'm transphobic.

Another massive argument yesterday because I said I don't believe the 'trans women are women' rhetoric. He said well you don't believe I'm a man do you then? And the problem is no, I don't. I think he has serious mental health problems and this has all got tied up in trans stuff.

What the very fuck do I say? Is there a good way to say it? Why is he so fucking self righteous about it? Told me I can't have experienced any difficulties cos I'm a woman. Riiggghhhhtttt I must have dreamed those sexual assaults, sexism at work, being overlooked for promotions because I had to have time off for poorly children (him being one of them, oh the irony).

Not sure what I'm asking for. Solidarity?

@Branleuse

i told my kid that I didnt believe in God or Allah but I still respected that my brother was muslim and that it is very important to him and I can respect other peoples beliefs whilst not agreeing with everything they say, and Its perfectly possible to respect them as a person and what they feel is important to them in their heart, but if they are trying now to tell me what I must actually BELIEVE, rather than just how I treat people, and also trying to call me names about it when ive been nothing but helpful and loving, is going too far and taking the piss

This is spot on.

Tactical ignoring is a useful technique Skatastic. It sounds as if there's a deliberate attempt to escalate matters - normal with most teenagers.
Ignoring repeated messages designed to inflame is fine. Having a rehearsed response - "I'm not going to get into this now - let's set aside a time when we can sit down and discuss this calmly and respectfully".
Rinse and repeat." I love you dearly but don't lets argue - we'll make a time for a proper discussion. When would suit you?".

Wishing you well at what must be such a stressful time.

Taken from the Safe Schools Alliance page - name changing & affirmation is not a good idea -
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2021/08/22/advice-for-parents-on-social-transitioning-by-schools/

“Changing a child’s name is harmless.”
Social affirmation can lead to a gender identity becoming embedded which in turn will increase the risk that the young person will seek medical transition in the future. Evidence suggests that 80% of children will desist if supported by “watchful waiting”. Physical transition involves irreversible experimental drugs and, later, invasive surgeries, both of which are harmful to the child. The judgement issued following Kiera Bell’s case against the Tavistock Clinic is quite clear on this.

This is a teenager problem, not a trans problem.

Give it 5 years and he will realise you were right!

he follows me around, piping on in my ear, or sends 30 WhatsApp an hour.

I think I'd start by tackling that as its obnoxious; he isn't trying to educate you, he's bullying you, and its reasonable to put a boundary in place.

I may also have told my kid that I identified as terfgender, but they got cross about it. So oppressive.

Honestly, teenagers do like to argue and know best, but usually, if you have an otherwise good relationship, its important to be able to make light of a situation. Kids usually do want to believe their parents are ok I think, and yet we seem to be so often paralysed with fear that they will reject us, but if you are coming at this from the gender critical feminist perspective rather than an anti trans perspective, and are educated on it, then maybe you can find some common ground, some humour, and try and push the live and let live thing, and tell them that life isnt always black and white, and that both sides of this have good points, and that you do absolutely support everybodys right to express their identity like this. Insulting you is crossing the line though, so back the hell up with that one and remember who pays for their phone and their wifi

@Skatastic

Thank you all, I appreciate every comment and I'm reading and learning.

I love him so very much and I do try hard not to argue with him but he follows me around, piping on in my ear, or sends 30 WhatsApp an hour. So sometimes I do snap. It has impacted our whole family and I feel like I'm clinging on by my fingernails most days.

Thank you again, I appreciate it so much.

I feel so desperately sorry for you. When I discovered my child had referred to a woman as a terf I spent a while refusing to do my socially expected role of mother and told them that if its all social constructs I’m not doing it anymore.

If I were you I would definitely refuse to let them follow you around and would block the WhatsApp messages. I think a break may be necessary for your sanity

I feel for you OP.

Have a look/read on Genspect. It's a place where parents of trans/gender questioning kids can talk to each other etc. Im sure will you find you're not alone in this.

genspect.org/

Does he date transpeople too? If he doesn't then why not?

And why you must never give ground. Cos you can never give enough ground. Your place is in the wrong and their place is in victimhood.

My 40 year old and 36 year old (D)Ds both called me a TERF. I wear the badge with pride!

Solidarity.
I'm in a similar position. Others advice to not engage in debate/arguments is no doubt good advice but I'm not too good at backing off from them eirher
. I think if u do end up talking about it again, try to frame it as a pluralist kind of scenario, ie we'll assume people do beluga this but others believe that, and that doesn't mean that either view is morally bad, and u respect his right to hold his view, and you'd like him to respect your right to your view.. That kind of thing. Good luck x

I get this from my DS (17, considering transition). blah blah you read that on Mumsnet blah blah dog whistle blah blah strawman blah reddit. I do a lot of rolling my eyes at the wall, nod and smile, wait for real life to (hopefully) catch up. Some of the very young woke kids at work are just the same so I'm quite innoculated to it.

I just try not to get drawn into arguments and concentrate on where we have common ground instead. There's no winning an argument with someone who Knows Everything about Everything.

The book recommended by a PP "Take me and Alex into town" or whatever is brilliant.

I feel so desperately sorry for you. When I discovered my child had referred to a woman as a terf I spent a while refusing to do my socially expected role of mother and told them that if its all social constructs I’m not doing it anymore.

If I were you I would definitely refuse to let them follow you around and would block the WhatsApp messages. I think a break may be necessary for your sanity

This is excellent advice. We love our kids so much and sometimes that means we let them get away with treating us like shit (I say 'we' because I've done it too).

It's not ok to define you. It's not ok to claim you've had no problems in your life because you're a woman (ha ha, honestly that speaks to huge lack of life experience - is your DS seeing what's happening in Afghanistan? If self-ID-ing worked and sex didn't matter all the women desperately trying to flee wouldn't have a problem would they they'd just ID as male?).

It's not ok to treat you as if you're not worthy of respect just because you're their parent.

I have to say I'd be very tempted to block the Whatsapp and say 'I don't identify as someone who knows what Whatsapp is' but that wouldn't improve things so I'd probably just think it.

I know you want to help them but no-one else in real life will put up with this shit from them so you'll be doing them a favour by showing them that respect is a two way street.

Has DS/DD been on the receiving end of any active discrimination so far, OP? i.e. bullied, harassed, intimidated? Whatever the answer, now might be the time to start "educating" them about sex discrimination. You yourself didn't self-ID as a woman when you were pregnant and gave birth, then you chose to be a loving parent; but you were ID'd by others as a fit target for harassment/assualt and your being a good mother was made into grounds for being held back at work.

It sounds like your kid may be old enough to hear some of this stuff—hearing about what happens when other people really do get assigned a gender-rôle and it is exploited against them.

Also, ask them which prison they would prefer to go to, supposing they end up in one: with male criminals (98% violent offenders are male) or female? Probably they won't believe you if you say 50% of TG prisoners are sex offenders, though.

Sorry, that should read 'including hearing about' (i.e. I was suggesting discussion of how people, esp. women, are discriminated against on the basis of sex and also assigned gender-roles).

Non binary DD and I have agreed to differ. Sympathies skatastic fab name!

Gah teenagers!

I'd go with.
You're living here and are provided for.
This topic is extremely divisive.
I have supported you with name pronouns etc. You need to drop it. This topic is off the agenda. I'm your mother and you're under my roof. Stop picking fights with me.

Advice for parents from a detrans woman

I get it @oldwomanwhoruns I really do but he pushed for us to use the name he wants so here we are. With a fuming kid who is so angry if we dare use his 'dead name'.

You are all right about his constant messaging of course and I know it needs to be challenged. I'm just so tired, of keeping him alive (numerous suicide attempts), of keeping the peace, of keeping to appointment times for CAMHS, of watching what I say.

Exhausting isn't it.

@Aparallaxia I think the thing is that he would have liked to be more discriminated against if that makes sense. He's had a small amount of gip at school but not a lot. And we have tried our best to support him as best we can and I feel like maybe he would have liked it more if we had totally refused and come crashing down with loads of rules and told him he was being ridiculous?

That video in the link I posted upthread is seriously helpful for understanding the mindset. There is a desperation to be persecuted.

I see it sometimes in a work capacity, where someone adult will talk about coming out as trans and how they were expecting a really tough time, and almost seem disappointed that everyone was perfectly fine with it, and the worst they could say was that some people weren't interested at all.

If you apply that sort of attitude to a teenager, all boiling hormones and righteous indignance, I really think the very best response is along the lines of 'That's nice, dear. Could you load the dishwasher?'

Thank you @FloralBunting I'll have a look. I know teenagers are hard work but bloody. hell. This is another level.

Skatastic fwiw, I had a trans-IDing daughter for a few years from around age 13. She's since desisted and is learning to be happy in her own skin as an older teenager now, approaching adulthood with ASD and some anxiety issues. She finds the whole TikTok identity stuff intensely irritating and is quite angry that the support she received from CAMHS was so overwhelmed with identity stuff. When she was beginning to move away from it all, and was doing some group work, the Trans-ID kids were hoovering up attention and she was coming to terms with how she had been flashed when she was around 12, developed boobs very early and was dealing with an emerging sexuality that looks like bisexuality atm, and none of the professionals gave a shit unless it was someone whining about their pronouns.

We never played ball with pronouns, or the requested binder, but we've always said to all our kids that they can choose what they want to be called and wear what they like. It was a hard road to travel, and it's no picnic now, for all sorts of reasons, not least because parenting, but I've always thought that as long as you keep communication open, and give your kids somewhere safe to return to where the boundaries are clear, you've done the best you can.