GC women thrown out of Edinburgh pub

[cariadlet]

Sorry if there's already a thread on this. I've been following it on twitter all day but didn't spot anything on Mumsnet.

The Edinburgh News has got a report about it.
www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/inquiry-launched-into-row-over-transphobia-in-edinburgh-pub-3355594

The reporter quotes a lot of the TRA's tweets which they would probably love but I think the reporter's just given them enough rope to hang themselves.

I'm sure the average reader who hasn't followed the trans debate won't be impressed by someone who calls themselves an "AGP porn addict male" in their twitter bio.

Publicly proclaiming that women seeking to uphold their rights under the Equality Act are banned from your premises must be coming very very close to unlawful discrimination, surely?

Here are recent tweets to Greene King about this matter:

twitter.com/search?q=(to%3Agreeneking)%20until%3A2021-08-24&f=live

I wonder if they're being read by an intern or by a grown up?

When I lived in Edinburgh, admittedly many moons ago, Dr's was absolutely NOT a woke pub. It was full of braying rugger buggers. The last time I darkened its doors I got into my first and last ever physical fight.

One of said rugger buggers grabbed me by my breasts from behind, and shouted Look! Its queenie from Blackadder. When he finally let me go I punched the fucker as hard as a could in the face. Wouldn't have left much of an impact, were it not for the pointy ring I was wearing. I reckon he probably still has a bit of a scar.

Looks like they might be leaving for a new job anyway?

@NiceGerbil

Well yes quite.

OTOH.

I mean

When I was young we had Tottenham pubs and arsenal pubs. Going in one with the other team colours/ cheering for them/ leaving leaflets would be seen as inflammatory. They'd have got a kicking though.

When I was young there was also a NF pub. They certainly only wanted a certain clientele.

Then there were pubs that were Irish and if you were English you kept your head down.

We also have other groups that don't mix round here.

A gay or lesbian club would presumably be ok with turning away wrong sex. Well 10 years ago anyway.

I suppose my point is that pubs can be very tribal and going into one that's not for you can and will result in Argy bargy.

And to me it feels like that's what happened here tbh.

This is a mainstream pub located at the end of The Meadows. It's also just across the road from Bristo Square which in normal years is a Fringe venue used by a major Fringe promoter. It's minutes from Greyfriars Bobby and other tourist attractions on the Royal Mile/ High Street/ Old Town and other Fringe venues.

Your analysis of tribal pubs couldn't be more wrong.

it seems that the bio was firmly tongue in cheek and being self deprecating on the stuff that had already been said by people tweeting her account.

That's not self-deprecating, that's incredibly poor judgement.

What kind of daft, internet obsessed person alters their public bio to that just after an event like this, and then is surprised that they're judged on it? It's rather ambitious to hope that hundreds of complete strangers, including the press, will invest hours of their lives to confirm it's an in-joke before they reach any conclusions.

If someone wanted to chuck me out of a pub because of my beliefs, I'd be respectful of that.
As long as they could accurately tell me what my beliefs were, with clear definitions of words and terms that might be being used ambiguously.

It's yet to happen on these boards and I'm doubtful someone that had barely talked to me would be able to correctly tell me what my beliefs were, but I'd be happy for them to have a go.

It’s not a tribal pub. At all

As others who live here have said

@ScreamingMeMe

Looks like they might be leaving for a new job anyway?

If it's another bar or restaurant no employer will want them once they find out what they are like on Twitter. Can't believe their current employer employed someone who clearly hates women.

@NoNotMeNoSiree

I've spent a good while today trying to make head or tail of this story when I saw it earlier. From what I can gather, and going through tweets, the bar manager is a trans woman who had people turn up in her bar, refused to leave after being asked as they were intimidating people? Plus a load of leaflets left lying about, although it's not clear who left them) Also seems at the fact that the newspaper article continuously says he. Because if they'd spent any amount of time checking their sources it seems that the bio was firmly tongue in cheek and being self deprecating on the stuff that had already been said by people tweeting her account. Since when do newspapers not thoroughly check stuff like this? Gone downhill since I was a lass mutter mutter

I don't get it. You "spent a good while today" trying to understand this story and still come up with that?

All you had to do was RTFT, or any of the linked sources with eye witness accounts to know that the women were not intimidating people and were asked to leave because the duty manager of Doctor's disagrees with women campaigning to uphold our rights under UK law.

It's all there in the manager's own words.

And by "tongue in cheek" you seem to suggest that that Twitter bio is meant to be understood as a joke and not taken as representing true facts about the account holder. Would you care to explain in which way a Twitter bio which accurately reflects the Twitter content of an account is "tongue in cheek"?

I don't understand the Twitter Bio. I have no idea what a cumbrained individual is in terms of gender identity.

I did read it as an individual who had given so many BJs that their brain was getting full of cum but I might be being a bit too literal.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

I don't understand the Twitter Bio. I have no idea what a cumbrained individual is in terms of gender identity.

I did read it as an individual who had given so many BJs that their brain was getting full of cum but I might be being a bit too literal.

Well that's an interesting visual.

I'm guessing it means obsessed with sex and/or porn.

I'm guessing here, but it might be a single word to articulate the concept held in the traditional phrase "only thinks with the second brain in his pants"?

From slangnet:

A cumbrain is someone, who is so focused on adult entertainment in life, that he only sees the sexuality of every situation, and every place he comes across, he thinks of how it would look like in an adult entertainment

From KnowYourMeme:

Cumbrain is a slang expression used to describe a person addicted to pornography and/or masturbation, perceived to have decreased mental abilities due to being excessively focused on the sexual aspects of life. Starting in May 2019, the term gained significant popularity across a number of boards on 4chan

Been looking at the recent "reviews" of this place, there's some real corkers but this one caught my eye:

It's welcome and inclusive to ALL women and men (with certain exceptions eg those whose hearts are filled with hate and out to cause trouble).

So bartenders have the ability to see into people's hearts now? Like Layla Moran?

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

it seems that the bio was firmly tongue in cheek and being self deprecating on the stuff that had already been said by people tweeting her account.

That's not self-deprecating, that's incredibly poor judgement.

What kind of daft, internet obsessed person alters their public bio to that just after an event like this, and then is surprised that they're judged on it? It's rather ambitious to hope that hundreds of complete strangers, including the press, will invest hours of their lives to confirm it's an in-joke before they reach any conclusions.

I'd assume it was not altered after the event, but for as long as they've been receiving abuse for being trans. 'porn-addled' is something Graham Linehan likes to accuse people of, based on no evidence (and who, incidentally used to very pro-porn until he went bananas).

@yourhairiswinterfire

From slangnet:

A cumbrain is someone, who is so focused on adult entertainment in life, that he only sees the sexuality of every situation, and every place he comes across, he thinks of how it would look like in an adult entertainment

From KnowYourMeme:

Cumbrain is a slang expression used to describe a person addicted to pornography and/or masturbation, perceived to have decreased mental abilities due to being excessively focused on the sexual aspects of life. Starting in May 2019, the term gained significant popularity across a number of boards on 4chan

Definitely something to put in your public social media profile of the account you have linked with work. Can't see that infringing any workplace social media policy, no not at all.

On the grounds that the bar tender has stated on social media that "terfs are now banned fae doctors, if you come in at any time I will report you to the police" I have emailed [email protected] asking them whether this is actually policy at Doctors, and whether it is actually Greene King company policy. On the grounds that I need to know whether I can safely include their establishments in my social plans, or whether I face the police being called and kicking me out if someone decides that I, or one of my friends, is a TERF. I do not think this is an unreasonable thing to ask them.
Regardless of the ins and outs of what actually happened that night, Greene King now has an employee who has announced a policy that they need to defend or refute.

Thank you for educating me about cumbrain. I think I understand now. It seems a peculiarly male expression to me (as one of the definitions attests).

If we laid aside the gender identity of the bar manager and the identities of the women in the pub, we'd have a manager:

calling customers 'cs

describing himself as a 'cumbrain'

posting pictures on social media account where he describes himself as a 'children's entertainer' of himself half naked in sexual poses

declaring publically that certain kinds of women are 'barred' from his pub, or women who hold certain beliefs/views are barred from his pub.

Called the actual police because some women ... are alleged to have put leaflets in the toilets?

And the Equalities Minister of the SNP has extended sympathy to him. How does she even know him?

This is all a bit OTT, is it not?

The equalities minister did what now? Any link available? That is fucking horrifying

@YetAnotherSpartacus

Thank you for educating me about cumbrain. I think I understand now. It seems a peculiarly male expression to me (as one of the definitions attests).

Yes, telling that the definition uses 'he' rather than going for neutral language.

@PostingForTheFirstTime

On the grounds that the bar tender has stated on social media that "terfs are now banned fae doctors, if you come in at any time I will report you to the police" I have emailed [email protected] asking them whether this is actually policy at Doctors, and whether it is actually Greene King company policy. On the grounds that I need to know whether I can safely include their establishments in my social plans, or whether I face the police being called and kicking me out if someone decides that I, or one of my friends, is a TERF. I do not think this is an unreasonable thing to ask them. Regardless of the ins and outs of what actually happened that night, Greene King now has an employee who has announced a policy that they need to defend or refute.

Seeing as this is Greene King's stated policy, some of you might want to boycott them anyway. I'm sure they won't mind

Andrew Bush, group HR director at Greene King, said: “We welcome all walks of life through our pub doors every day and want to celebrate the diversity of our teams that are representative of the people we serve. We’re acting to build and nurture an inclusive culture and are pleased to join these four organisations to help us to do this.

“It is important we create a work place where people can be themselves, have a sense of belonging and feel valued for their individual skills and abilities. Just as we want our customers to feel at home in our pubs, we want our people to feel like they can be their true self at work.”

Greene King is also joining lesbian, gay, bi and trans equality charity Stonewall’s Diversity Champions programme. Jesse Ashman, client account manager at Stonewall, said: ‘LGBT-inclusive employers play a crucial role in changing society by using their power and influence to proudly support LGBT staff and customers. We are delighted that Greene King has joined the Stonewall Diversity Champions Programme to demonstrate its commitment to championing lesbian, gay, bi and trans equality in the workplace. We are excited to work with Greene King over the coming months to support its LGBT inclusion activities, to ensure that all LGBT people are accepted without exception.’

Not bloody Stonewall again. Yet another company that's been captured.

Seeing as this is Greene King's stated policy

If you're saying their stated policy is to bar entry to gender critical women, they'd better have a chat with their lawyers.