GC women thrown out of Edinburgh pub

[cariadlet]

Sorry if there's already a thread on this. I've been following it on twitter all day but didn't spot anything on Mumsnet.

The Edinburgh News has got a report about it.
www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/inquiry-launched-into-row-over-transphobia-in-edinburgh-pub-3355594

The reporter quotes a lot of the TRA's tweets which they would probably love but I think the reporter's just given them enough rope to hang themselves.

I'm sure the average reader who hasn't followed the trans debate won't be impressed by someone who calls themselves an "AGP porn addict male" in their twitter bio.

Only a man would take "part" of a woman's body and deem it a sperm receptacle. These men have destroyed my community

Reads like a true and factual statement to me.

@RedDogsBeg

Maybe sometime, if you all behave yourselves x

That's cutting edge, serious debate right there everyone, hope you are all impressed.

Have you got a figure? It's your lot, you should have a rough idea. As I said, only a hundred or so people turned up to that event in Glasgow, that's got to be disappointing surely?

@BilindaB

I do find the conflation and misgendering deeply offensive though.

That's fine. I find the idea that women's single-sex spaces and services should be open to males deeply offensive.

I find this a useful illustration of how the general public’s view of transwomen and access to female spaces depends on self ID or reassignment surgery.

The survey commissioned by Wings Over Scotland, although not showing 95%, certainly shows that the wording of a survey question can get significantly different results. The YouGov survey which is constantly being used as evidence that the general public are fine with transwomen using toilets which do not match their sex was commissioned by PinkNews.

It is significant who commissions the question and how the questions are worded (sometimes deliberately vaguely to obscure intent).

wingsoverscotland.com/transforming-the-question/

Since some men are transmen, it's absolutely true that there is higher percentage of rapists among people with penises than there is amongst people who describe themselves as men.

I should have put the first part in inverted commas, sorry.

Have you got a figure? It's your lot, you should have a rough idea. As I said, only a hundred or so people turned up to that event in Glasgow, that's got to be disappointing surely?

That's not how it works, you made the claim, it's up to you to provide the evidence to back it up.

@Ekofisk

I find this a useful illustration of how the general public’s view of transwomen and access to female spaces depends on self ID or reassignment surgery.

Note that the red cross for indicates 'plurality agree' not 'majority agree.' There isn't a majority agreement, amongst the general public, or women as a group, that trans people with their original genitalia should not be allowed access to women's changing rooms or bathrooms.

Have you got a figure? It's your lot, you should have a rough idea. As I said, only a hundred or so people turned up to that event in Glasgow, that's got to be disappointing surely?

Not really. Short notice event aimed at a demographic disproportionately made-up of people with caring responsibilities. Also the demographic that is negatively impacted by the sex-pay gap, and maternity discrimination.

I go to hardly any of this stuff myself between caring responsibilities and train ticket prices. Doesn't mean I'm not taking these issues into account when I vote.

As I said, only a hundred or so people turned up to that event in Glasgow, that's got to be disappointing surely?

Is that the one where women who were actually there said it was more like 700

Or is it a different one

Thats not a question for bilindaB by the way

It's a reference to those who turned up for Marion Millar I believe Rufus

@RedDogsBeg

Have you got a figure? It's your lot, you should have a rough idea. As I said, only a hundred or so people turned up to that event in Glasgow, that's got to be disappointing surely?

That's not how it works, you made the claim, it's up to you to provide the evidence to back it up.

It's not a claim I care about proving right now. Feel free to consider it an unfounded claim. Now my question is, was only a hundred or so people (count them in any photo or video taken on the day,) turning up to the recent Glasgow event disappointing and perhaps a reflection of the small amount of support this movement actually has? Or was it on a tuesday, which are always difficult?

@RedDogsBeg

It's a reference to those who turned up for Marion Millar I believe Rufus

Aahhh thank you red

The Tuesday in the school holidays one?

Gotcha

Note that the red cross for indicates 'plurality agree' not 'majority agree.' There isn't a majority agreement, amongst the general public, or women as a group, that trans people with their original genitalia should not be allowed access to women's changing rooms or bathrooms.

Given that a plurality in this case still means that more women agree than disagree, how many women do you think have to object before their opinions count?
.

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

As I said, only a hundred or so people turned up to that event in Glasgow, that's got to be disappointing surely?

Is that the one where women who were actually there said it was more like 700

Or is it a different one

Thats not a question for bilindaB by the way

Different one. And I have since found out that one with 700 people was specifically about trans people in sport, which has been shown to be easily the one element of the trans debate that has the widest contention.

I should imagine there are multiple reasons people didn't manage to attend, work, home life, distance, the Covid situation, day of the week, etc.

I will take your claim as unfounded because it is, as I said earlier in the thread, within my circle I could easily muster several hundred people who are GC and absolutely do not support the TRA agenda.

@Ekofisk

Note that the red cross for indicates 'plurality agree' not 'majority agree.' There isn't a majority agreement, amongst the general public, or women as a group, that trans people with their original genitalia should not be allowed access to women's changing rooms or bathrooms.

Given that a plurality in this case still means that more women agree than disagree, how many women do you think have to object before their opinions count?
.

A majority would surely be helpful to your cause. But you haven't got one, why not? Is it because people have 'drunk the kool aid' or that the media has been 'captured', something like that?

You've ignored the Wings Over Scotland poll where there is a clear majority, particularly when the question is clear, precise and not about feelings.

@BilindaB

''Only a man would take "part" of a woman's body and deem it a sperm receptacle. These men have destroyed my community.''

Conflation and misgendering.

It goes without saying the story is disturbing and the individual is disgusting.

We cannot assume how you think about things. You keep accusing us of speaking for "all women" as it is.

Here's some conflation, from the bartender who kicked the women out of the bar.

Any terfs see this, hai! I tried to be civil with you and you failed.

You're the worst customers ever. You dinnae belong in pubs... or society... you made my staff and other customers uncomfortable.

I hope you understand just how much normal society despises you
^^ t.co/R3Y6MYAN1f

twitter.com/mebisdead/status/1429286589683863552?s=19

You've also repeatedly ignored the many comments regarding the chilling effect. Many women, including myself, would love to go to these events but we can't risk our livelihood.

@BilindaB

I'm not going to respond to what I believe to be bad faith deliberate misrepresentations of what I've said. Apart from this response, obviously.

There have been no bad faith interpretations

Just your actual words

If you didn’t mean it the way you said it now would be your chance to put things straight

A majority would surely be helpful to your cause. But you haven't got one, why not? Is it because people have 'drunk the kool aid' or that the media has been 'captured', something like that?

Because a plurality still means that that more people agree than disagree.

So, I’ll ask again how many women have to say no to males in female only spaces?

Why does it have to be a majority for women’s voices and concerns to be valid?

And this -

It's not a claim I care about proving right now. Feel free to consider it an unfounded claim.

Is the TRA 'no evidence' mantra for all to see.