GC women thrown out of Edinburgh pub

[cariadlet]

Sorry if there's already a thread on this. I've been following it on twitter all day but didn't spot anything on Mumsnet.

The Edinburgh News has got a report about it.
www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/inquiry-launched-into-row-over-transphobia-in-edinburgh-pub-3355594

The reporter quotes a lot of the TRA's tweets which they would probably love but I think the reporter's just given them enough rope to hang themselves.

I'm sure the average reader who hasn't followed the trans debate won't be impressed by someone who calls themselves an "AGP porn addict male" in their twitter bio.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

How can they monitor inequality and creating a hostile environment for women if they don't accept the legal definition, and don't collect sex disaggregated data?

The Scottish government themselves are very clear that certain issues are - well - they call them 'gendered', although they mean sex. What they are talking about is VAWG. This is acknowledged clearly as a 'gendered' issue and the ScotGov are very proud of having noticed and realised this. (well done, them).

www.gov.scot/policies/violence-against-women-and-girls/

Quite how they are going to reconcile 'We believe that there are links between VAWG and inequality between men and women' with 'we do not need to know someone’s biological sex [characteristics]', I don't know.

Oh, the gov have archived their 'What does gender have to do with violence against women?' article. I wonder why:

'www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20150219074957/www.gov.scot/Publications/2010/02/05102715/1'

I did the survey for police Scotland. And wrote that I don’t have a gender identity

They do have a choice man or women but you have to gender identify as a man or a woman to fill in that bit

Why didn’t they have another question about gender identity

So women are privileged because they have to be ravaged by pregnancy and childbirth in order to reproduce. Now I’ve heard it all.

Quite how they are going to reconcile 'We believe that there are links between VAWG and inequality between men and women' with 'we do not need to know someone’s biological sex [characteristics]', I don't know.

This is why I say third rate minds Arabella, they are numpty scunners the whole lot of them.

"The latest stats on UK Twitter show that 25 out of a 100 people use Twitter and of those 25 only 10 are female.

So for starters, no more than one in five women use the platform"

So isn't that 1 in 10 (10 out of 100)?

@terryleather

Quite how they are going to reconcile 'We believe that there are links between VAWG and inequality between men and women' with 'we do not need to know someone’s biological sex [characteristics]', I don't know.

This is why I say third rate minds Arabella, they are numpty scunners the whole lot of them.

Numpty scunners sums the whole lot perfectly

I am a lurker, and occasional poster. It takes an incident like this for me to stick my head above the parapet.
The headline should be “woman thrown out of pub for having an opinion”, and that is so scary. It is also scary that so many women are too scared to say they are GC at work for fear of attention. I came out to a colleague when we were both skirting around the subject, turns out she is another silenced women, too scared to hold the opinion openly.
How did this happen? We are professional women with very middle of the road lives who simply believe in equality and fairness.
I’m sure there are many more of us, but we will never be counted, no one ever asks us, we must be invisible - and that’s not a new concept is it!

@JulesJules

"The latest stats on UK Twitter show that 25 out of a 100 people use Twitter and of those 25 only 10 are female.

So for starters, no more than one in five women use the platform"

So isn't that 1 in 10 (10 out of 100)?

Only 8% of the global population uses Twitter. Yet idiot politicians think it is terribly important. Will their bletherings really be there for all time , like the used toilet paper frozen forever on the slopes of Mount Everest?

There are a lot of us @Viewfromtheisland . I couldn’t be open about my views on science and reality at work because I’d be exiled and unemployed immediately. We live in strange times. You’re spot on with your assessment of it.

@LazyViper
Hi Lazy, it’s good to know that there are a lot of us in the same position, but very sad at the same time. If issues like this bring more of us out, however slightly, then that is positive. Might be more of us than previously estimated

[quote Viewfromtheisland]@LazyViper
Hi Lazy, it’s good to know that there are a lot of us in the same position, but very sad at the same time. If issues like this bring more of us out, however slightly, then that is positive. Might be more of us than previously estimated [/quote]
I'm in the same boat too. I generally keep my mouth shut and sit on my hands where social media is concerned. I don't know what my firm's approach is in relation to trans matters and I've no intention of testing it, quite frankly!

I'm not holding my breath, but I'd like to seem more efforts at civil discourse rather than abuse and threats.

On the one hand, women discussing issues which affect them, wearing t-shirts and putting ribbons up.

On the other - www.terfisaslur.com

It's almost (almost) comical how TRA's are pushing the narrative that 'each side is as bad as each other'.

@Datun

(and you know my solution, private cubicles for all)

Do you have any idea of the sexism behind this comment?

You are suggesting that women change every protocol about women's sex segregation, in order to accommodate a handful of men that you think should be validated by those women.

Women need sex segregation that doesn't rely on cubicles. When they have children, toddlers, prams, elderly parents.

Plus cubicles aren't going to work in prison, are they? Or a rape refuge? Or in hospitals, or mental health facilities. Or in sport.

I mean, I know the sexism that underpins the fact that women are seen as lesser than, as a service provider to men, and are simply not to be taken into account, is rife in transgenderism.

But to see it so clearly laid out by someone who thinks that is the right way to be, is very depressing.

Take heart Datun the push back is like a snowball, and it’s getting bigger and bigger every day. 💚🤍💜

''Women need sex segregation that doesn't rely on cubicles. When they have children, toddlers, prams, elderly parents.''

Have some big cubicles. Like they have for family changing.

I've been to swimming pools that have this exact system.It's a unisex changing area with secure cubicles, some of which are double size for families.

Have some big cubicles. Like they have for family changing

What about prisons, hospital wards, sex segregated religious buildings, sports etc?

And those large cubicles, there will be many small venues or older buildings where this just won't work. So what then.

When I’ve been at the spa with my friends we get changed in a communal area , there is 1 cubicle but we don’t use it as are too busy chatting and having fun, but now you want me to give that safe space up and hide in a cubicle?

And no to a big cubicle, it would have to be extra large to fit us all in…..

I've been to swimming pools that have this exact system.It'snisex changing area with secure cubicles, some of which are double size for families.

And, as stated upthread from my own experience, unisex changing villages are ripe for males to abuse females in adjacent cubicles.

@BilindaB

''Women need sex segregation that doesn't rely on cubicles. When they have children, toddlers, prams, elderly parents.''

Have some big cubicles. Like they have for family changing.

I've been to swimming pools that have this exact system.It's a unisex changing area with secure cubicles, some of which are double size for families.

The specific problem with those cubicles in unisex pool changing is that they don't have floor to ceiling walls. For drainage I expect. And where there's an opportunity for an iPhone to be slid under the wall to film teenage girls, it appears a male will come along to take it.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6106937/amp/Eddie-Catz-founder-caught-secretly-filming-schoolgirls-swimming-pool.html

I love to go swimming with my sons. Unisex changing villages are way easier to manage BUT we live in a world where all females are at risk from a significant proportion of males. One of the best ways to safeguard against risk is to remove opportunity. It turns out the paedo in the article I linked (who owned a soft play centre ffs! Yet another example of how sex offenders do in fact go to great measures to infiltrate spaces and roles where they will find victims) had been observed to happen to shower at the same time as a group of female school kids on other occasions. But because the showers and changing area are mixed sex no staff member was empowered to act on their suspicion.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4156118-AIBU-to-think-there-s-benefits-to-communal-changing-rooms

This thread has plenty of women say they prefer a cubicle. And plenty who like communal. I would prefer cubicles, and so would my daughters. Just more private.

@BilindaB

''Women need sex segregation that doesn't rely on cubicles. When they have children, toddlers, prams, elderly parents.''

Have some big cubicles. Like they have for family changing.

I've been to swimming pools that have this exact system.It's a unisex changing area with secure cubicles, some of which are double size for families.

I personally (and accept that other have different views) believe it's entirely possible we could make physical and/or social changes that mean mixed sex provisions are not a concern, either because there has been across the board funding to change all existing single sex provisions everywhere into something that works as mixed sex for both males and females, or because we as a society have been able to finally root out and end the male violence, privilege, selfishness and entitlement that makes single sex provisions necessary intervention first place.

What I cannot accept is the sleight of hand that says that since an ideal world where we can have safe mixed sex provisions can be envisioned, it's ok to jump straight to saying Yes to making single sex into mixed sex now without demanding those changes are made and proved to have worked first.

@BilindaB

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4156118-AIBU-to-think-there-s-benefits-to-communal-changing-rooms

This thread has plenty of women say they prefer a cubicle. And plenty who like communal. I would prefer cubicles, and so would my daughters. Just more private.

Yes, many women will prefer cubicles - but within a single sex area.

I'd prefer to be objectively safer in a single sex environment, cubicles or not, than to feel that I had privacy whilst actually being at risk of voyeurism in a mixed sex environment.

Oh look, here's another example, in those lovely big unisex cubicles in coffee chains. For all I know, there's videos of me on the loo on the Internet.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/pervert-filmed-thousands-of-coffee-shop-customers-on-the-toilet-in-cafes-across-london-a3142171.html%3famp

I wish people would take it up with the pathetic entitled men who commit these crimes rather than attempting to gaslight the women attempting to navigate this hostile world safely.