GC women thrown out of Edinburgh pub

[cariadlet]

Sorry if there's already a thread on this. I've been following it on twitter all day but didn't spot anything on Mumsnet.

The Edinburgh News has got a report about it.
www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/inquiry-launched-into-row-over-transphobia-in-edinburgh-pub-3355594

The reporter quotes a lot of the TRA's tweets which they would probably love but I think the reporter's just given them enough rope to hang themselves.

I'm sure the average reader who hasn't followed the trans debate won't be impressed by someone who calls themselves an "AGP porn addict male" in their twitter bio.

@Rhannion I'm not sure who you are thinking about but this is a good article about the impact of allowing transwomen into women's sport. It references a number of UK and US sportswomen who have spoken out against inclusion.

www.deseret.com/2021/7/29/22584285/male-to-female-transgender-olympic-athletes-impact-womens-sports-president-biden-mike-lee-weigh-in

@Datun They fetishise abortions and stillbirths? Presumably because it validates their feelings that they are a woman. That makes me so angry, the lack of disregard for women who have had to go through that trauma.

Childbirth has always been used as a form of controlling females whether it be those who are able to have children or those who are not able to have them. To cite that as something females are lucky to be able to do without thinking about the implications for them sounds like a privileged position.

You can’t change biology at a chromosomal level. There are many people with inherited diseases that we cannot do anything about. You can tinker with cosmetic appearance. You can demand society certain things from society (you may not get them though - just ask all the oppressed groups!). You can throw all the hormones you want but biology is biology and it’s immutable.

“ I've ejected people from the café where I worked for vandalising the premises with stickers before.”

It’s my understanding that the group were there for a meal and that Marion popped in.
I think they have denied that any of them put up stickers or left leaflets.
Even the bartender did not mention this as a reason when first asked.

@Cyclops10 horrifyingly, yes -

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4037973-Simulated-pregnancy-and-induced-lactation

Well you seem to have all gone bananas now, so I'll be off .

Still no answer on the 3000 or the definition of women then?? Funny that

@Beefcurtains79

You ever gonna address that bullshit 3,000 claim @ BilindaB?

Oh, oh! Before you go - can you answer the question above? You've been asked quite a few times now!

Cyclops10

I was going to talk about the specific instance I mentioned, but I honestly can't. It was too much. Right down to a woman who apparently offered to lend the man her baby to 'authenticate' the experience.

Which seems to play into the idea mentioned above that some women are protective of men who deign to join their group and 'share the oppression'.

I do sometimes wonder if some women are flattered over the suggestion that men want to be women. When what I see is men utilising women's oppression, that they created in the first place, for their own entertainment.

It's an almighty mindfuck.

As a poster said above, it's a neat trick when men can use gender dysphoria as an excuse for violent, criminal behaviour and then use the exact same excuse again to get housed in the female estate!!

BilindaB

Well you seem to have all gone bananas now, so I'll be off .

Will you exactly lain where you got the 3,000 figure before you go? Thanks, I know you wouldn’t want everyone to think it was a complete fabrication that you invented to try and back up your argument.

I think that when you start stating women have privilege over transwomen and cite pregnancy as a reason you pretty much have shown how far the dissonance goes.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

You are treated as perfectly normal, not a problem

Women are treated as problems for

• speaking our truths
• speaking our minds
• speaking out
• speaking about things men don't want us to speak about
• speaking about ourselves and our needs
• speaking about our oppression
• speaking about our pain
• speaking about our anger
• speaking

Women are treated as problems for;

• Being where men don't want us to be
• Being in places men want to be
• Being present
• Being absent
• Being for ourselves
• Not always being there for others
• Being.

Well said.

Slight derail: iirc there was a TW posting on here a while ago who said that they'd always seen women and girls as being privileged, and it was part of the basis of their wanting to be female. My mind still boggles.

@BilindaB

Well you seem to have all gone bananas now, so I'll be off .

Shocked.

I'm not sure if you realise this, but you are the latest in a long line of people who simply cannot face up to the arguments, or the questions asked.

But you're right about it being bananas.

On fetishisation of pregnancy, periods etc...

I've been on these boards a while and I've seen instances of "OMG this person said/did an extreme thing" become "some trans people think/do x".

I'm as GC as the next female, but I don't think it's valid to select outlier individuals or very minority trans sub cultures as representative of trans women in general.

There are billions of humans on this planet. The internet both nutures and exposes many extreme niche obsessions. Some of those will identify as trans. Some will be damaged individuals who may not have much in common with other trans people but latched on to trans narratives and culture through the lens of their own needs.

I think when talking about self id or when someone claims trans women would never do x and are therefore safely interchangeable with females it's valid to flag the outliers, but it's not valid to imply their ideas represent something intrinsic to trans women or trans culture.

We don't need the outliers to make the case that males and females are different and there are good reasons why sometimes females need their own rights, opportunities and protections independently of their own or anyone else's gender identity.

Well you seem to have all gone bananas now, so I'll be off .

Nothing to contribute then?

Can we summarise this?

BilindaB shows up on a thread about GC women being thrown out if a pub.

1. claims that only 3,000 people, all women, are GC in the entire UK.

2. states that trans women and trans girls girls (with penises) should change with girls regardless of visible erections (?).

3. States that people are mean to condemn antisemitism if the person being antisemitic is trans.

4. claims that pregnancy, pregnancy complications, risks, discrimination is a privilege for women.

5. refuses to answer any questions.

6. Scarpers and calls us bananas.

Did I get all that correct?

But male people can have children.

c Jenner has loads I'm sure.

And others trans women that was the first person who came to mind.

Yep, incel ideology and some gender ideology has a lot of overlap. There is a dislike/hatred of women because -

• women are seen as 'having it easy'. They can be 'kept' by a man, 'take time off' to have a baby, experience positive discrimination etc. As a pp said, many men don't like the fact that there are special provisions (hard fought for) for women such as maternity leave while simultaneously reaping the benefits of their partner being able to do this.
• women are seen as the gate keepers of sex and men are the 'good guys' being unfairly rejected by 'those bitches' which again all ties into the sissification fetish that women are to be dominated.
• women are seen as a costume - giggly, swishy hair, long painted nails, pillow fights with the girls. It doesn't matter that women are autonomous beings who may or may not enjoy those things. Some transwomen see themselves as the 'real' women because they follow these stereotypes.

@BilindaB

Well you seem to have all gone bananas now, so I'll be off .

No, what's bananas and deeply offensive is your claim that women are privileged over transwomen because they can gestate a child and give birth.

I imagine those 10, 11 and 12, year old girls married off to men in their 40s and 50s absolutely relish their privilege to be of the sex that is capable of gestating and giving birth especially when they are lying there dying because of it. What privilege, no oppression there at all.

@BilindaB

Well you seem to have all gone bananas now, so I'll be off .

Charming

Well you seem to have all gone bananas now, so I'll be off

Didn't see that coming 🙄

How have we 'gone bananas?' I don't understand. Please explain.

So first we are cis and now bananas? Step up I think

@Blibbyblobby

On fetishisation of pregnancy, periods etc...

I've been on these boards a while and I've seen instances of "OMG this person said/did an extreme thing" become "some trans people think/do x".

I'm as GC as the next female, but I don't think it's valid to select outlier individuals or very minority trans sub cultures as representative of trans women in general.

There are billions of humans on this planet. The internet both nutures and exposes many extreme niche obsessions. Some of those will identify as trans. Some will be damaged individuals who may not have much in common with other trans people but latched on to trans narratives and culture through the lens of their own needs.

I think when talking about self id or when someone claims trans women would never do x and are therefore safely interchangeable with females it's valid to flag the outliers, but it's not valid to imply their ideas represent something intrinsic to trans women or trans culture.

We don't need the outliers to make the case that males and females are different and there are good reasons why sometimes females need their own rights, opportunities and protections independently of their own or anyone else's gender identity.

Well, to be fair, it was more to counter the idea from transgenderism, that women are privileged for their biology. There are indeed plenty of men who think that, including transwomen, who fetishise it.

And whereas the fetishisation of stillbirth and abortion might be rare, the fetishisation of other parts of female biology like menstruation and pregnancy certainly aren't. There are forums dedicated to it across the Internet. It's not a positive thing for women. It's an objectification of their very biology.

I don't understand what trans culture is, or what you mean by it?

There are billions of humans on this planet. The internet both nutures and exposes many extreme niche obsessions. Some of those will identify as trans. Some will be damaged individuals who may not have much in common with other trans people but latched on to trans narratives and culture through the lens of their own needs.

Indeed. But this is the problem when one departs from reality to claim that men can be women.

I don't think it is as much of an outlier position as you seem to think Blibbyblobby, we had a memorable thread on here from a friend of a TW who would give anything to experience period pain and how we we were all horrible meanies for discussing it and upsetting said friend.

Language around female biology and functions is being changed so as not to upset and trigger those who do not possess female biology and therefore experience it. It will be said that this is being done for Transmen, that is a load of bullshit it is being done to assuage the feelings of transwomen.

Indeed. But this is the problem when one departs from reality to claim that men can be women.

Yes.