I think I’m going mad….

[Iootraw1]

I’ve absolutely had enough of my family bringing up ‘mum’s views’ (which I’ve learnt to keep completely private from them due to previously accusations of bigotry’), and then when I say a single thing in response,, accusing me of being ‘obsessed’ with it and not keeping it to myself!

I feel like I’m going mad. Husband saying he doesn’t know why I’m so obsessed with trans matters and I should keep to myself - I do! I don’t want to share with them because they don’t agree and don’t want to hear it.
Ever since the first time I tried to bring up and got shot down my him and kids I decided I would never mention again and wait for them one day to find out for themselves and be peaked.

But Just once again tonight in response to their accusations (they brought up subject not me) I tried to explain briefly why it opposes women’s rights and homosexual rights and got quickly turned upon. I’ve bought Trans by Helen Joyce now and will just tell them to read it next time (although will no doubt get condemned for buying a ‘transphobic’ book and they will refuse to read it) I feel really down, I can’t even have my own personal opinions and thoughts now without my very own family trying to eek out of me what ‘I really think’ and nose at what I’m looking at over my shoulder (I follow Glinner and Posie and Mars). I’ve bought headphones so they don’t hear it and never share any of it. I have to clear my history in case they search it.

It’s like some weird dystopia we’ve all been forced to enter. I even mentioned the olympics tonight in my defence and they still they said that I imagine all of this and it’s not really happening.

What will it take for they and the general public to wake up and at least listen to women’s concerns? I feel so upset tonight. 😩

You are claiming to have an understanding of teenagers because you have similar views on ‘trans issues’?

That is your claim to giving the view from a teenagers perspective? No. Please don’t conflate understanding teenagers and what they are dealing with in their lives in 2021 with the fact you might share the same view.

@BluebirdsSong

I'm offering genuine advice as someone who actually understands the kids' side of things here, giving you an idea of how the kids might react.

Whether or not you heed it is entirely up to you

So your advice is far from impartial.

You only give this advice because of the topic and because you agree with the children.

The fact she has stopped mentioning it and they keep raising it and angling for a row is ignored. That this is an actual woman wanting advise about her actual family and a situation that parents of teens know very well.

Your advice-

The mother should listen to her teenage children because SHE might learn something

She should continue to do the things she does- roof over head, cooking, cleaning, washing whatever it is or they will DESPISE her

That's your advice.
But apparently only on this subject and only because you agree with the children.

That's just really not great. Telling her they will despise her if she does a standard normal thing to do. If your older children are being dicks to you in your own home.

Essentially because you dislike her views you've told her to keep her opinions to herself and be a good doormat (sorry, mum).

It's not about a difference of opinion.

It's about her teenagers finding how to push her buttons and going for it.

Teenagers do this an awful lot. Luckily most of them grow out of it.

How utterly ridiculous.

I do not have to validate every view my children have and nor do they me. We can amazingly have different views on things. Like bedtime politics, education etc.

I didn't breed mini-clones. They are their own people. Unique.

But what they do have to do, in my house, is treat others with the same respect they expect to receive. If they don't, there are consequences. Its called parenting.

Knowing how teenagers think?

That the common opinions of their friends / group have no carry through when the others aren't there...

'Why, do you think the "peer pressure group" has hidden cameras installed in their house?'

That this would be a standard normal for teenagers to do:

'@TalkingOutYerArse
"They know it's all shite but cant say otherwise. Hence the term, peer pressure."

Why not? What's stopping them? They could easily approach the OP and privately tell her they agree with her, if they agreed with her at all. It's not like private conversations in one's own home are public social media statements.'

Knows teenagers eh?

Mansplaining teenagers since 2020

@NiceGerbil
What is your point? It's not exactly clear.

OP.

What a tough situation? I expect that you will need to sit them all down and point out that while you will keep quiet about these issues in their presence (if that is your choice) that all of them need to do the same thing.

And they all need to respect that you have a right to privacy and that you have the right to your own opinions that you have researched and will continue to research because it is important to you.

FWIW I found that finding a group of people (in real life and away from family) willing to discuss these issues from all perspectives very helpful.

@NiceGerbil
Do you think the kids secretly agree with the OP's view on trans people and only express the opposite views because they're afraid of "social gulag"?

What is your point? It's not exactly clear.

We could parse your previous posts as an indication that you have a teenage view of trans issues. Because you don’t seem to have experience with teenagers being teenagers in 2021. Yet implied that you were giving ‘their’ perspective.

And here you are giving parenting advice on a parenting forum.

Is it not?

You have given op specific 'advice' entirely based on the fact you don't like her views.

You have then said the advice is really important because you understand teenagers.

My point is:
You have demonstrated that you have no clue about how loads of teens behave to their parents, and it's often directed at their mum.
You seem to think that at 15 and 18. They will need to be 'eased into' complex things like feeding themselves and washing their own pants.
You seem unaware that a very common response to your teens behaving in ways that piss off their parent/s in the home they provide. Is to say. Well if you're going to behave like that. You can forget been cooked for etc.

Do you think the kids secretly agree with the OP's view on trans people and only express the opposite views because they're afraid of "social gulag"?

This comment shows that you really don’t understand the complexity of the issues facing teenagers now.

And BTW children don't need to agree with OP, whether social suicide or not. But they need to behave respectfully.

Clear dearie?

Oh so you've declared that any parent who takes the common approach of saying I'm not going those things any more.

Will end up being despised by their children.

...!

'This comment shows that you really don’t understand the complexity of the issues facing teenagers now.'

Disagree.

'This comment shows that you really don’t understand teenagers.'

That's better.

Yes. The entire point of the OP is about the teenagers respecting their mother and treating her like the important part of the family she is. Ie. Just as important as everyone else, and deserving of having her opinions respected and not bullied for them.

She is pro women. She is not anti-trans. That term is the new one being used to silence women. And it completely misses the point that it draws the spotlight on the fact there ARE conflicts between the rights. Something that has been denied for so long.

Yes it also implies trans issues lie at the centre of everyone's universe.

Tbh, they just aren't that interesting. Pro-women, those amazing, strong life givers and nurturers.

@NiceGerbil

'This comment shows that you really don’t understand the complexity of the issues facing teenagers now.'

Disagree.

'This comment shows that you really don’t understand teenagers.'

That's better.

Really. You disagree?

Which way was the echo chamber that I was told I’d find here?

[quote BluebirdsSong]@NiceGerbil
"Would you advice be exactly the same?"

I think in any household where the parents and the kids have starkly different social/political views, making the kids feel they're being punished for that difference is bound to worsen the relationship between the kids and the parents...

Whether or not they should be punished anyway largely depends on what those views are, I would say.[/quote]
Not punished for different opinions, but for a total lack of respect. I would argue you’re not punishing them you’re parenting by respecting their desire to be individuals and have their own rights by according them some of the responsibilities that go with those.

I get this a bit from my kids. I think it’s because they’ve been told how to think and anyone else who expresses any misgivings about the trans bandwagon is a biggot.
I did get a breakthrough by saying if I took T then do you think i would be literally a man, and you would have two fathers and no mother, and that it’s the literal interpretation that is harmful, not the e being trans.
Apart from that it’s often just why are you obsessed with this? What’s it got to do with you? I think they are just not used to me having strong opinions and not cantering them in everything.

@Iootraw1 I am so very sorry that your thread has been derailed. And by some terrible parenting advice to add insult to injury.

Your children seem rude to you. I am so sorry to hear that. I think you need to establish that they cannot be rude and find a consequence. At that age, I think I would change the WiFi password but my children are younger. It is not acceptable to start conversations and mock people for their views. I would start there.

As for the whole trans topic, either you leave them to it or you discuss it when they can be respectful.

Ask them if the transwoman YouTuber who raped their 80-year old mother with dementia should go to a women’s jail. Listen to their views. For bonus points, say that you have heard that many people think it is the fault of lesbians for not sleeping with them and not the fault of the rapist. Then ask who else is owed sex. Are your children owed sex and in that case from whom?

www.invenglobal.com/articles/14713/chris-chan-arrest-barb-assault

Ask them if 9-year old girls should be in the jacuzzi next to exposed semi-erect penises in a spa (WiSpa) incident. Listen to their views.

As them if they think that the migrant women working from home should have agreed to wax Jessica Yaniv’s male genitalia as Jessica Yaniv claimed to be a woman. Listen to their views. Say that you heard that a big part of the case was that it was migrant women. Ask if native Canadian women should have to handle male genitalia against their will.

But I honestly think that the biggest problem you have is the lack of respect from your children. I would start there. And as for the posters who say that their treatment is “justified” due to your views it makes me very uncomfortable. It reminds me of when men says that hitting women is justified due to women’s behaviour.

My son was like this when he was 15-17. Had gender queer/non binary friends, and I got behind the various pronouns, and was understanding, unlike DH.

Then Maria McLoughlin happened and I started reading Janice Turner, and obviously the scales fell from my eyes. So then I became a bigot in son's eyes, and DH was bored by my interest in the subject. We had to agree not to talk about it.

Eventually, when he was a bit older (and had begun to realise that his GNC friends actually had various other issues causing them distress) I came across an opportunity to discuss the whole thing, away from home, and explained my position. Then JKR happened.

He's now just as GC as I am. He has lots of GNC friends, and says that most if not all have other issues, and /or are AGP. He will use requested pronouns but no way believes TWAW. Nor do those of his friends who he has (carefully) identified are GC. He's just very careful what he says, with people he doesn't know, so as not to be labelled a Terf. And I support this. DH is also just as GC as I am, though he wonders why I am so invested in this.

So - give it time OP. You are presenting a different view, one their friends don't, and let's face it, we have reality on our side. The derailment of this thread shows how rattled TRA/misogynists are.

Ask them if the transwoman YouTuber who raped their 80-year old mother with dementia should go to a women’s jail.

Chan is very complex as an example for reasons outlined in this piece:

I would hope that most people would agree that Chris should be dealt with seriously, but so should any person who would encourage someone with clear mental disabilities to sexually abuse another person with mental disabilities. This is the part of the story that mainstream media and other news outlets are missing.

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-results-of-the-chris-chan-experiment

I think we all know how to spot a lady here.

The mansplaining teenager with the know it all opinion. Practicing telling women why he is right, and women are wrong. Critical thinking and the ability to debate isn't his thing.

The mansplaining adult quick to point out why he is right. And women are wrong. The critical thought and debating skills are still missing.

Funny how despite the clear age difference between some of these people, the striking similarities are still there. No compassion, no lessons in life learnt. Just a strong internal belief that they are right. And women are wrong. No debate required. No necessity to listen to what is being said to them.It seems like they never grew up.

Yet despite their distain for natal women, they just can't stay away from us. They have to know what's going on. What women are saying. What we are thinking. And they do their best to try and control that. By whatever means available to them. Now that really is an obsession. A very unhealthy one indeed.

The parallels in the ops situation also playing out online. Males attempting manipulate and control. Instead of discussing, debating and learning. Self improvement isn't a thing for some of these people.

I expect Jordon Peterson would have some useful advice for them. Much of which would help them improve their lives. Step up. Take responsibility for their behaviour. But sadly they wouldn't want to take it.

After all, taking personal responsibility is hard work.

Isn't it.