Never thought I'd post on here but males on female hospital wards. Wtf

[ryzen]

I thought we were making progress by getting rid of mixed wards. I'm really upset by this. Can I do anything?!

I am a victim of endless sexual abuse and harassment.

I have suffered very much for being female and being physically weaker than most males. I do not want to ever have to end up on a ward with one. I actually hide away now due to the attacks I have suffered in public. I never get a taxi alone. I plan my days around being home before dark.

In all honesty I do avoid men but I feel I should be able to if I want to especially with something as intimate as my healthcare. I've read a report in the times today that says if a female does not want to be next to a trans person then they should be treated as a racist would. I find it disgusting to even compare these scenarios.

This infuriates and scares me in equal measure. The preposterous argument that a woman objecting to a male patient on a female ward is the same as a racist can be easily dispensed with by saying skin colour is superficial difference whereas sex is a profound difference. Not that gender ideologues would buy that as they don't believe in sex anyway.

It has been a political decision not to invoke the relevant part of the Equality Act 2010 (to be found under Paragraph 27, Part 7, Schedule 3 of the act). As an example, the act talks about it being legal to exclude a TW from a domestic violence group for women as the women may find it difficult to talk freely around said TW.

Now, if that exception can be legitimately invoked, why do hospitals not invoke it when women are extremely vulnerable in hospital? Lack of political will, occasioned by fear, is my guess. Any woman knowing she's going into hospital would be well advised to print up a copy of the relevant bit to show them. Never forget hospitals abide by Stonewall Law.

If handing over a patient who may not have been born female – THIS SHOULD NOT BE DISCLOSED. Under the Data Protection Act we are not to disclose gender history UNLESS it has a direct impact on their care (fully document this). Ask yourself, Do I NEED to disclose this? Obviously with patient permission this is OK, but it is advisable to get the permission in writing.

Just imagine if there was guidance that stated :

If handing over a patient who may have Covid19 – THIS SHOULD NOT BE DISCLOSED. Under the Data Protection Act we are not to disclose medical history UNLESS it has a direct impact on their care (fully document this). Ask yourself, Do I NEED to disclosethis? Obviously with patient permission this is OK, but it is advisable to get the permission in writing.

I wonder why this doesn’t happen? Could it be that not disclosing a patient’s Covid status could cause harm to the other patients?

It's just more gaslighting to say that GDPR means that a trans person's sex must never be disclosed.

@IheartJKR

We as women are expected to police and manage our immediate environment - allowing a man who harms us into our space we are usually held as responsible for what those men then do to us… Ie. Rape victims Why did you chat to him? Why did you accept the drink ? Etc etc

When a predatory man gains access to women spaces they regard that as consent and our society and courts fucking agree with him.

Now our government is forcing us to be in spaces with men when we don’t want them there. How am I supposed to keep myself safe ?

This is a really powerful article about exactly that.

theathletic.com/2704711/2021/07/15/this-is-what-you-endure-watching-england-as-a-woman-misogyny-sexism-and-the-constant-fear-of-being-touched-without-consent/

Times
(extract)
"Male-born sex offenders who identify as women can be treated on female-only NHS wards after a risk assessment, some hospital trusts have told staff.

Devon, Oxford and Nottinghamshire hospitals have said that a criminal history should be part of an assessment when placing trans patients but that it should not prevent admission in all cases."
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-sex-offenders-can-go-on-womens-wards-hospitals-advise-0fmbhm3bn

It is really important to understand is that "sex offender" is not the same thing as "rapist". Most sex offenders, particularly since rape convictions are so low, will be exhibitionists/flashers or voyeurs or possessors of illegal porn/child abuse. THOSE are potentially some of the male patients they're putting in with what are mostly elderly, vulnerable women on medical wards. Paraphiliac adult males with convictions for flashing or voyeurism. A hospital ward is literally their most wished for offending environment.

If the police are now recognising that for the most dangerous of men, flashing or voyeurism must be taken seriously, why are the NHS and other Care providers ignoring/downplaying this potential risk in spaces where women are at their most vulnerable?

Times
'After Sarah Everard’s murder, police must take flashing more seriously'
(extract)
"Police will be told to take offences such as indecent exposure and street harassment more seriously in the wake of Sarah Everard’s murder.

Wayne Couzens, a serving firearms officer, abducted the 33-year-old as she walked home in south London in March. Her body was found 50 miles away in woodland in Kent after a search lasting a week. Couzens pleaded guilty to her murder on Friday, having already admitted rape and kidnapping.

It has since emerged that officers were warned about Couzens, 48, six years earlier. In 2015 a male motorist reported Couzens for driving naked from the waist down, while days before Everard’s disappearance he is alleged to have exposed himself to a female staff member at a McDonald’s restaurant." (continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/after-sarah-everards-murder-police-must-take-flashing-more-seriously-hth2cwc8k

Safeguarding has gone in the bin to satisfy the feelings of gender dysphoric men. It is sickening. If they put a male-bodied person in with me or any female family member I would raise holy hell. And so would my DH and any person with an ounce of sense.

@vargus but you’re vulnerable sick - medicated - you maybe can’t advocate for yourself !!!! You’re a sitting duck

@R0wantrees
A sex offender is a rapist who’s not been caught yet…. Or escalated

@JustAnotherWoman and this will lead to many more women leaving treatment early.

And now they've cut the admin time right down. Say something = a crime.
Of course it's not all men. But enough women know that there are a large percentage of predatory and also opportunistic men (and ill say men) that enjoy making women's lives worse and it is really unfair to force women into silence about being forced to be in a hospital with a male.

My dh gets the problem. I'm pretty sure a lot of good men get it too and don't agree with these policies. Problem is, the policies are often put in place by those for whom it's easier to simply disregard women because it's never going to affect them.

OP: I've read a report in the times today that says if a female does not want to be next to a trans person then they should be treated as a racist would.

Who wrote that? It reads to me like a personal opinion such as you might find in a piece by a columnist. If it's just an individual's opinion it's of no greater weight than my own, which happens to be different. I do hope it's not a leading article with the stamp of the newspaper's own authority.

Who wrote that? It reads to me like a personal opinion such as you might find in a piece by a columnist. If it's just an individual's opinion it's of no greater weight than my own, which happens to be different. I do hope it's not a leading article with the stamp of the newspaper's own authority.

Telegraph
Safety fears for patients as NHS allows trans sex offenders in female-only wards

People should be admitted based on the gender they identify with and can choose which shower and toilet facilities they use, says guidance

By
Hayley Dixon,
SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT and
Ewan Somerville
2 August 2021 • 9:30pm
"Male-born sex offenders who self-identify as women can be placed on female-only NHS wards, hospital trusts have said in guidance.

Devon, Oxford and Nottinghamshire hospitals all tell staff that a criminal history should be part of a risk assessment when placing male-born people on female-only wards, but do not say it is a bar to admission.

It comes as The Telegraph has found that NHS Trusts across the country have issued guidance that says patients should be admitted based on the gender they identify with and therefore can choose which ward, toilets and shower facilities they use.

Some trusts have labelled those who express discomfort as transphobic, compared them to racists in official guidelines and ordered staff to report them to police for hate crimes.

Until 2019, one hospital group instructed medics to withdraw treatment if a female patient refused to accept a physically intact male on women-only wards.

Oxford Health NHS Foundation Trust notes that the “risk of sexual offending in a trans context is very rare”, adding that where there is “significant risk” staff would “apply the same robust mitigation that we would to a non-trans patient to ensure a safe therapeutic environment”. (continues)
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/02/safety-fears-patients-nhs-allows-trans-sex-offenders-female/

@Abitofalark

I am afraid it is in many of the main papers….

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ebb83282-f3e8-11eb-8f01-2c678acbb979?shareToken=63b3da9aa8851dc86d2dcdb3f5d404e7

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9854261/Convicts-born-male-identify-female-placed-women-wards.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/02/safety-fears-patients-nhs-allows-trans-sex-offenders-female/

Ewan Somerville via Twitter
"Exc: Male-born sex offenders who identify as women can be placed on female-only NHS wards, hospital trusts have said in guidance

Medical staff say they fear speaking out about patient safety risks

More on front page & p4"

twitter.com/ewansomerville/status/1422307544802938885

Nice, I had forgotten about the transwoman who was caught accessing child sex abuse from her hospital bed. Very ladylike.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8521787/amp/Paedophile-54-used-public-Wi-Fi-download-child-porn-hospital.html?__twitter_impression=true

ibid. Telegraph

(extract)
However, the policies have been put in place despite an order from the Department of Health that hospitals have to provide single-sex wards.

Medical staff have warned that the guidance documents put them in breach of their code of conduct and leave the most vulnerable at risk.

Staff are now too scared to raise safeguarding issues, with reports of nurses who have spoken up having lost their jobs.

Doctors say that self-identification is particularly an issue on mental health wards, where patients may be suffering delusions, and which are locked so patients cannot leave. Allegations of rape on one such unit have been made.

One nurse told The Telegraph that risk assessments of patients, including those with a known history of sexual offences, do not take place as staff are too busy.

“In-patients are often frail, elderly and confused and we as nurses have a duty to protect them,” she said.

“They are not being safeguarded and they are not getting the dignity and the privacy they deserve.

“The public believe that we have single-sex spaces for our most vulnerable, our mothers, our grandmothers, but it is simply not true. NHS wards are replicating what is happening in jails.”

She said that one mental health trust says patients expressing discomfort “could result in seclusion and long-term segregation”. (continues)

from link above

Daily Mail
'Trans woman, 54, who used public Wi-Fi to access child porn from hospital bed is jailed for nine months after police find hoard of 80,000 images on laptop - as authorities decide whether to send her to male or female prison'
By Amie Gordon For Mailonline
14 Jul 2020
(extract)
"A trans woman who amassed a 'vast' library of 80,000 child sexual abuse images over a 14 year-period has been jailed for nine months - as authorities decide whether to send her to male or female prison.

Paedophile Julie Marshall, 54, was caught after accessing the images from her hospital bed using public Wi-Fi while recovering from a heart attack in August 2017, Preston Crown Court heard.

Marshall, who had no previous convictions, pleaded guilty in February to three counts of making indecent images of children by downloading them from the internet between June 2004 and April 2018.

They included 677 category A images at the most serious end of the scale, 465 category B images and 79,958 category C images." (continues)

Passing sentence Judge Simon Newell said: 'The images are vast in number.

'The crown assert that the aggravating features are the period of time over which downloading took place - 14 years - and the amount of images and to some extent the ages of the children involved, though again it appears the bulk of interest seems to be in girls aged 15 or teenage girls." (continues)

Marshall was jailed for nine months for the category A images, six months for the category B images and four months for the category C images, with all sentences to run concurrently.

She was also given a 10-year notification order to sign the sex offenders register and a six-year sexual harm prevention order."
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8521787/amp/Paedophile-54-used-public-Wi-Fi-download-child-porn-hospital.html

Was Marshall accessing child sexual abuse whilst on a female ward?

Thank you Rowantrees and BatsmansBat for the information and share token.

I think I heard something on the 5 30 am news briefing on Radio 4
today about the topic, perhaps mentioning The Telegraph. Or was it on Woman's Hour? My memory is shocking.

It has been discussed on BBC Radio 4 Woman's Hour today.

Some NHS trusts have issued guidance stating that people should stay on hospital wards based on the gender they identify with and can choose which showers and toilets to use. That's according to today's Daily Telegraph. But many people feel that the privacy from single sex wards is part of their recovery. The merits of mixed versed single sex wards has always been debated and policy has changed as a result. We speak to Sally Sheard, a health policy analyst and historian.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000ycvs

Doctors say that self-identification is particularly an issue on mental health wards, where patients may be suffering delusions, and which are locked so patients cannot leave. Allegations of rape on one such unit have been made.

I believe the notorious convicted rapist and transwoman Karen White (who was placed in a women's prison, where KW promptly assaulted more women) was in prison for raping a woman on a... women's only psychiatric ward.

2017 when in hospital. Not sure if there were mixed or not mixed wards then. Looks like a man. I am sure most women would not want to share a ward.

previous relevant threads:
2018
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3297578-NHS-confuse-sex-and-gender-on-advice-about-The-Mental-Health-Act

2019
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3550561-Tras-trying-to-get-sectioned-tw-moved-to-womens-ward

The Times article, by Nadeem Badshah, references the Telegraph, in reporting NHS Trusts' guidance. The part referred to in the OP seems to be this:

"The Times reported last year that hospital guidance issued by NHS Greater Glasgow & Clyde that urged nurses to chastise women who object to sharing a ward with trans women had been put under review.

The health board advised staff to treat women who were uncomfortable about sleeping next to patients who appeared male as they would a racist who was worried about a black patient."

I believe the notorious convicted rapist and transwoman Karen White (who was placed in a women's prison, where KW promptly assaulted more women) was in prison for raping a woman on a... women's only psychiatric ward.

Transcrime UK website

Karen White
(extract)
"Karen White/David Thompson (born Stephen Terence Wood), a violent male who identifies as a trans woman, was convicted in September 2018 of two rapes committed in 2016, the rape of a pregnant woman in 2003, the wounding (stabbing with a steak knife) of an elderly male neighbour and burglary.

White also admitted two counts of sexual assault against two women while held on remand in HMP New Hall (a women’s prison) – a complete and utter failure of the safeguarding responsibilities owed to those vulnerable women. Two further charges of sexually assaulting two other women in prison were ordered to remain on file. Also remaining on file are a further rape allegation against the 2016 victim and a charge of controlling behaviour perpetrated against her." (continues)
The Sunday Times revealed further details of White’s long history of violence and sexual violence against women and girls facilitated by abject failures to safeguard those at risk. White committed the 2003 rape of a pregnant woman (whose drink White spiked to render her unconscious) while living in a probation hostel on licence for the sexual offences against a child and was – unbelievably – not recalled to prison. The Independent reports that the victim’s husband had not believed her and she had made an attempt to end her life. In her impact statement she told the court “I have no relationships with anyone. I felt very dirty as a woman. I became very depressed. Even now 15 years on I still struggle with mental health and suffer horrendous flashbacks. Until 15 years ago I was a strong woman.”

White then went on to gain access to another vulnerable victim via a mixed-sex psychiatric unit – another closed facility where vulnerable victims could not escape from a convicted male sex offender. White repeatedly raped and subjected the woman to violent, controlling behaviour; in her victim impact statement she also said she had tried to take her own life and was worried she cannot have children due to internal damage from being violently raped by White." (continues)
transcrimeuk.com/2018/07/17/karen-white/

Great twitter thread and about the decision making behind these supposed single sex wards

twitter.com/HairyLeggdHarpy/status/1052296768115888128

Thanks for the Woman's Hour link. I knew there was something about trans (that's the term she used, I noticed) on it today but couldn't remember what. Well, they did give prominence to a male journalist complaining about women dissing men and I remembered that.

I meant to say thanks, Rowantrees.

I understand Dr Kate Coleman (Keep Prisons Single Sex Organisation) is speaking to this issue on GB News at 4.20pm.