Never thought I'd post on here but males on female hospital wards. Wtf

[ryzen]

I thought we were making progress by getting rid of mixed wards. I'm really upset by this. Can I do anything?!

I am a victim of endless sexual abuse and harassment.

I have suffered very much for being female and being physically weaker than most males. I do not want to ever have to end up on a ward with one. I actually hide away now due to the attacks I have suffered in public. I never get a taxi alone. I plan my days around being home before dark.

In all honesty I do avoid men but I feel I should be able to if I want to especially with something as intimate as my healthcare. I've read a report in the times today that says if a female does not want to be next to a trans person then they should be treated as a racist would. I find it disgusting to even compare these scenarios.

This isn't about safety - or a single room on the male ward would suffice. And indeed being on a male ward would be safer as the staff would be more attuned to caring for men, their reactions to drugs, and normal male levels from tests etc.

This isn't about access to women's wards or a single room there would suffice.

This is about access to women. And demanding that access knowing or not caring if your presence makes those women uncomfortable.

[quote Rosesareredd]@GoldenBlue
@GCAcademic

You are insinuating that all men pose a threat and we should be threatened by their presence. We can’t incriminate all men.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t have individual wards for different sexes either, just that it doesn’t make me uncomfortable to share the same ward with the opposite sex.[/quote]
FFS does it always come back to NAMALT?

Yes. We know. The problem is we can't tell which ones are the dangerous ones, can we.

Believe me, if it were possible, I wouldn't have ended up married to one.

When you write, ask to see their equality impact assessment first.

''Equality and human rights duties impact analysis for provider handbook on acute hospitals, mental health and community health services''
www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/20140925_hospitals_provider_handbook_equality_impact_assessment_analysis_final.pdf

When you write, ask to see their equality impact assessment first

Yeah good luck with that.

When you look at all thr FOI responses from the hundreds if requests submitted regarding association, money ajd training etc from stonewall, the one thing missing on every response I saw was guess what....

No impact assessment.
Always N/A

Held by some other non named department elsewhere.

Not done

The part if the request ignored completely

Well, thats the point.

@MiaAnnabell3

I was on a gynae ward for a double mastectomy and reconstruction so felt like I'd been hit by a bus. The lady in the bed next to me had her 3 adult sons visiting several times a day and each time the nurse insisted on keeping my curtain open so she could see me. While 3 adult males sat openly staring at me and asking "have you had your boobs done?" It was awful.

You need to complain. The decision whether to have your curtains open or closed is yours to make - unless you lack capacity and area at risk in some way eg falling or pulling out drains.

When you write, ask to see their equality impact assessment first

I tried and was told it was guidelines not policy and only policy requires an eia.

Weren't alot also told to ignore the request altogether as it all was taking too long?

Doesn't take too long to fill out hundreds if pages about what you have done to shit on women and every other protected characteristic though...

Funny that..

FFS. Let's revisit the basic tenets of safeguarding again shall we:

Safeguarding is grounded in mitigating against potential risks. It's not a personal value judgement on individuals.

We look at different factors and make decisions based on risk. This is grounded in statistics and facts.

Personal feelings are not part of this analysis, and the vast majority of people are not offended by this.

No one is exempt from this process, again this is not a value judgement on any individual person, it's about the collective.

Single sex wards are a legitimate and sensible approach to mitigating against the risk of sexual assaults in a hospital setting.

I investigate safeguardings in hospital settings. I have investigated sexual assaults. In my experience, unfortunately, hospital trusts are not receptive to safeguarding outcomes and recommendations, even where there is a clear pattern of repeated incidents. I could write a book on it, but for the purposes of this thread, single sex wards are a basic frontline safeguarding tool which help to mitigate against the risk of sexual assault. It really is that simple. It has nothing to do with anyone feelings, or whether someone feels comfortable with sharing their space with the opposite sex or not, safeguarding doesn't (or shouldn't with the current shit show going on) care about your feelings.

The constant pushing and blurring of safeguarding boundaries has got us into this position, and as I've said before, nothing gets my spidey senses tingling more than people who object to safeguarding processes and procedures.

Off to bang my head against a brick wall again. Wtf has happened to safeguarding???

At least 1,019 reports of sexual assaults on mixed wards April 2017 to October 2019 compared to just 286 reports of incidents on single-sex mental health wards over the same period.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3789095-Over-1-000-sexual-assaults-in-mixed-sex-mental-health-wards

I don’t have time to comment and reply to every response to me. Saying there’s something wrong with me when I was a teenage girl for not being uncomfortable around middle-aged men is bizarre.
Why would I need to be uncomfortable? They were all reading newspapers and drinking tea from what I remember.
To judge and incriminate them just for being male and having a penis would be wrong, when all of my experiences around men at that age were positive.

@Rosesareredd

Such a pick me girl.

Agree that this is terrible. I'm disgusted with the NHS and their current policies on so many things now.

This is about access to women. And demanding that access knowing or not caring if your presence makes those women uncomfortable.

The disregard for female patients' safety, dignity and privacy is not confined to single-sex accomodation but also intimate examinations by male HCPs. NHS policies and best practice suggest that female patients have the right to withold consent to examination/treatment by male HCPs and/or require the presence of same-sex chaperones. The NHS is however unable to deliver this important Safeguard.

Sunday Times
December 08 2019,
'Patient branded transphobic after asking for female medic
A clinic has apologised over its reaction to a letter from a rape survivor who wanted a woman to carry out her breast screening'

(extract)
A woman who asked for her NHS breast-screening to be carried out by a female-born clinician was pilloried as a transphobe by a hospital trust.

Clare Dimyon, 54, who was raped as a teenager and is a lesbian, wrote formal letters asking to be seen by a “natal female” when she went for a mammogram on Christmas Eve last year.

She made clear that after being violated by a man when she was “little more than a child” she did not consent to intimate procedures being carried out by people born as boys." (continues)

The mammographer signed one letter confirming she was female and another letter was placed in Dimyon’s medical records. But two weeks ago she saw her letters highlighted by the trust as examples of “unacceptable” and “highly discriminatory” communications in guidelines to support trans patients and staff.
Her requests had been anonymised, but were not given any context. The trust failed to say that they were written before a mammogram, an intimate procedure.
This weekend the trust defended its stance. “It is not possible to guarantee to any patient that they will only be treated by a clinician assigned to a specific gender at birth and, as an organisation that prides itself on our commitment to diversity and inclusion, nor would we wish to do so,” it said." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patient-branded-transphobic-after-asking-for-female-medic-3jh3snddt

archive archive.fo/VF6NB#selection-845.0-863.303

i News
December 31st 2017
'NHS trust apologises to woman after ‘nurse with stubble and deep voice’ tried to take smear test'
(extract)
"The NHS has apologised to a woman who was left “embarrassed and distressed” after a nurse with stubble and a deep voice was going to carry out her cervical smear test at hospital.

The woman requested a female NHS nurse to perform the intimate procedure but was dismayed when a staff member with “an obviously male appearance” greeted her.

When the patient pointed out the mistake, the nurse replied: “My gender is not male. I’m a transsexual.” (continues)
inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-woman-transgender-nurse-smear-test-114009

My husband used to run a cub pack. He had to have an enhanced DBS check first. This is because although the vast majority of adults won’t harm children, some do and we can’t tell by looking.

Or should we abandon safeguarding for children on the grounds thar most of them feel comfortable around adults

(Is this really that hard to grasp???)

To judge and incriminate them just for being male and having a penis would be wrong, when all of my experiences around men at that age were positive.

Wow.

Safeguarding is not 'judging or incriminating men'.

Decent men are aware of that fact that their very presence can be threatening to women in some situations. To a great number of women, particularly those who have been assaulted by men in the past. Decent men would never think it's acceptable to impose themselves in women's safe spaces. And decent men know that safeguarding and having spaces segregated by biological sex is nothing to do with incriminating them.

We can’t incriminate all men.

NAMALT 🙄is irrelevant in this discussion

Why is it that the majority of men, being decent, are able to understand that it's nothing to do with incriminating them but all to do with safeguarding, and the dignity and comfort of women, when you are not, @Rosesareredd?

NHS watchdogs have launched a national review of sexual abuse in hospitals amid fears patients are being put at risk on mixed sex wards.

archive.is/wwyXH

This is just not about the possibility of assault.
Once I was placed in a room on my own with a window into a men's ward. The man in the bed nearest the window was leering at me every time I looked up. I was in hospital because I was ill, I could barely walk and was hooked up to a IV, I felt like hell and just wanted to sleep. I spent my entire time on edge and couldn't rest, the man didn't hurt me physically but I felt threatened and uncomfortable, it was obvious that the man was enjoying making me feel that way. I very much doubt that any of this aided my recovery.

@Rosesareredd

I don’t have time to comment and reply to every response to me. Saying there’s something wrong with me when I was a teenage girl for not being uncomfortable around middle-aged men is bizarre. Why would I need to be uncomfortable? They were all reading newspapers and drinking tea from what I remember. To judge and incriminate them just for being male and having a penis would be wrong, when all of my experiences around men at that age were positive.

I would worry for you because your nativity and lack of boundaries would put you in at risk. That is not to say you won't be lucky and grow up to think all men are sweetly innocent and men insisting on being on a female ward only want to be there because of the pink curtains.

@FindTheTruth - Nice attempt to try and offend me, nothing wrong with my IQ thanks!

@MiaAnnabell3 - Nice passive aggressive comment there!

I think these comments say everything about the sort of people you are. I’m not returning to this thread, if you can’t accept another persons difference of opinion without passive aggressive/belittling behaviour then it’s not worth my time and effort to engage any further.

Saying there’s something wrong with me when I was a teenage girl for not being uncomfortable around middle-aged men is bizarre.
Why would I need to be uncomfortable? They were all reading newspapers and drinking tea from what I remember.

Safeguarding / Child Protection legislation and policies are not based on teenagers' perception of risk. They would be entirely ineffective if this was the case.

Saying there’s something wrong with me when I was a teenage girl for not being uncomfortable around middle-aged men is bizarre.
Why would I need to be uncomfortable? They were all reading newspapers and drinking tea from what I remember.
To judge and incriminate them just for being male and having a penis would be wrong, when all of my experiences around men at that age were positive

It's not just about you and you have no mandate to give away other women's rights.

@Rosesareredd

I don’t have time to comment and reply to every response to me. Saying there’s something wrong with me when I was a teenage girl for not being uncomfortable around middle-aged men is bizarre. Why would I need to be uncomfortable? They were all reading newspapers and drinking tea from what I remember. To judge and incriminate them just for being male and having a penis would be wrong, when all of my experiences around men at that age were positive.

What's wrong is that you do not recognise that others won green do feel uncomfortable among men, and do have the right to feel this way, tragedies of their personal experiences. What is wrong is you excluding them.