Some thoughts on trans, the media and society

[Nefelibata33]

Hello everyone, I'm starting a new thread, cos I posted this message on a thread about Dr Helen Webberley, but people said they didn't want to discuss it, cos the thread was specifically about Dr Webberley. So I thought I would post my message for everyone to see, in a new thread. I think it's worth reading, I would like to discuss things with people. If you want to say something, please do. I will talk to anyone. Abuse me if you want, but I'd prefer if you didn't. I couldn't give a sh*t tbh. Sending love xxx. Here's my original message below

Hi everyone.

Just a post to say something. Firstly, if you are really concerned about big pharma, check that the NHS is in league with big pharma, and they dish out drugs like they're smarties. I have no idea what state you may be in, but you may have experience of this. I find it totally scary that so many people are getting hooked on drugs, cos a doctor prescribed it. This really isn't ok. As an example, a few years ago, they changed the blood sugar reading for which you can be described as diabetic. So more people could be diagnosed as diabetic, and more people could be given diabetic meds, and hey... a GP gets a bonus every time they diagnose someone as diabetic. I think the NHS is great, the nurses who are ready to sacrifice their own lives to help others, like Florence Nightingale. Like my Grandma. Like one of my cousins. But the ones who sit in offices and dish out drugs, they are a real problem.

Why am I saying this? Because doctors will dish out every drug going, even when they have horrendous side effects, make people actually feel worse than they were to begin with. Do we hear anything about this in the media? No. It doesn't sell papers. Any sort of backlash against big pharma? No. Because the media are onside with the mega rich pharmaceutical company directors getting richer and the poor getting poorer, not that the media would say that. Is there a type of drug doctors aren't allowed to dish out? Yes, oestrogen or testosterone.

This is the only thing no doctor can prescribe. There are plenty of countries around the world that take a different approach to trans people, and it's not so difficult to get hormones. With no disasters taking place. Keira Bell got a lot of attention. One person that made a mistake, amongst the thousands of trans kids who are happy as they are. One person. The media made a big deal of it.

Would it be wrong if I said that the media in this country have an axe to grind against any minority group? The Sun carried out a massive racist hate campaign against Raheem Sterling a few years ago. Britain's most prominent black footballer, it wasn't racist at all. You saw the racist abuse thing after England didn't win the Euros. It's absolutely shameful that so many people think it's OK to send someone death threats, JUST BECAUSE THEIR SKIN IS A DIFFERENT COLOUR. Encouraged by the Sun. The tabloids are the cancer of this country, our society would be much better without them I think, but we're stuck with them. They killed Princess Diana. A woman who was in the prime of her life, so happy, and bang... killed by the tabloids. There was a massive outpouring of emotion, but did it stop anyone from buying the tabloids? No. Nobody learns. I've read on this site, all this woke this woke that. Prince Harry has been accused of being woke. Cos he married a mixed race woman, and he doesn't want her to end up like his Mum. Think about it. Not "woke", a loving human being.

I don't get the woke thing. It's just a word that has been invented to describe someone who cares for social justice, and is right on. Can someone please explain to me why that's so bad? I really don't get it. Why are kind people a problem? Could it be, that there are just a lot of people who aren't very kind?

Back onto the media, they are totally corrupt, lying bullshtters. GB News is really struggling, so to boost ratings, they decided to attack the Trans community. To boost ratings! I guess that's more entertaining for the sort of people who watch it. I am now going to say something. I don't care who you are, but just realise this. Trans people are being treated just like gays were 20 or 30 years ago. The media do this to sell papers, and make money. Rupert Murdoch is Australian, he's an immigrant, but his papers bang on about immigration. Fcking hypocrite. The demonisation of Trans people is just part of a large scale war by the right wing/neo nazi movement. Are any of you reading this wondering now? It's part of a nazi thing. Caring for children is one thing, but demonising a group of people who just happened to be so unlucky that they were born in the wrong body is another. Have a heart, people. No transgender person wants to hurt you, or your children. They are not dangerous to anyone, the women's toilets, shelters, changing rooms in clothes shops... This is the truth. You don't get the truth in the papers. The papers don't have anyone's best interest at heart, they are just trying to make money.

I've said what I needed to say. I came on Mumsnet cos I'd heard of it, and I wanted to see how people think. I've received quite a bit of abuse off people, quite nasty, and some questions about my level of intelligence. Don't worry, I'm intelligent, and I won't stoop to the level of insulting someone else for being different, or having different opinions.

I am a feminist. There, I said it. I would die to protect a woman. So how come so many so called feminists are against Trans women? Do you actually believe a Trans woman is going to rape you in the toilets? NEWS! Trans women don't hurt or kill women, MEN DO. Trans women are not men. No Trans woman wants to hurt you. It's just the sort of fcked up shtbag men that want to hurt you.

If anyone wants to comment on anything I wrote, feel free. Make it intelligent, no gratuitous abuse please X

So if I spot, say, an internal contradiction in your long post, would you like me to point it out to you, or would you prefer me not to?

This is a really contradictory messy post. Are you ok?

So is the indiscriminate prescription of drugs a bit dodgy then? I'm taking that from your first paragraph.

Thanks for your post.

Just a couple of things.

'I have no idea what state you may be in'

Do you mean state of health?

'Because doctors will dish out every drug going, even when they have horrendous side effects, make people actually feel worse than they were to begin with. Do we hear anything about this in the media?'

Yes.

Certainly there are issues around anti depressants and the impact of prescribed contraception.

I've seen loads of news items about these issues.

The way women and girls are often treated when it comes to health is s big important topic and I've seen news items on that as well.

'As an example, a few years ago, they changed the blood sugar reading for which you can be described as diabetic. So more people could be diagnosed as diabetic, and more people could be given diabetic meds, and hey... a GP gets a bonus every time they diagnose someone as diabetic. '

Type 1 or 2?
Was there research supporting the change, how extensive was it?
Any links about the diabetes diagnosis bonus on the NHS?

Doctors aren’t allowed to “dish out” oestrogen?? Are you sure about that…?

'I find it totally scary that so many people are getting hooked on drugs, cos a doctor prescribed it'

Do people get hooked on insulin? Or whatever drugs are used with type 2?

'But the ones who sit in offices and dish out drugs, they are a real problem.'

That's really harsh on the massive number of GPs TBH.

'Because the media are onside with the mega rich pharmaceutical company directors getting richer and the poor getting poorer, not that the media would say that. Is there a type of drug doctors aren't allowed to dish out? Yes, oestrogen or testosterone.'

That's not right surely.

Hormonal contraception is very easy to get.

Hrt there are problems with consistent approach etc. I had it prescribed recently on NHS one appt no probs.

'Would it be wrong if I said that the media in this country have an axe to grind against any minority group? '

Not sure of the link but yes some do and have been that way forever.

Hello!

Yes, I was on that previous thread.

You seem to have a very strong bias towards allowing children access to these puberty blocking drugs. I wonder if you read the amazing post on the previous thread about the actual known side effects of those drugs, based on evidence and research - here is a link:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4288795-Helen-Webberley?pg=22

The post was at 17:06 by Charleyparley and really explains it very well. Also on that page, a post about the investigative reporting by the telegraph into GenderGP and how young girls were able to get hold of these drugs without a lot of trouble or proper counselling.

So what's your thoughts on this? Evidence, facts, setting out very comprehensivly the huge problems many on this site see with this current practise. If you are seeking to dissuade many of us from our positions, this is what you will have to engage with. Feelings, wild accusations and talking about Princess Diana won't do.... What about the EVIDENCE.....

'just like gays were '

Gays?!

'. No transgender person wants to hurt you, or your children. They are not dangerous to anyone,'

No group should be seen as incapable of harm because of membership of that group.

People are people. All groups can and do contain individuals capable of all sorts of things.

Well I mean apart from newborns etc.

What is your reasoning behind your assertion that NO person with a trans ID, anywhere in the world, now or in the future. Is incapable of committing certain types of crime?

' I would die to protect a woman'

Again this is a very broad statement.

Would you die to save a woman like rose West? One of the nuns in the Magdalene laundries? Any woman you have never met? Have no idea about? Would you die to save a woman in Syria?

It's the third man conversation isn't it!

Can post the bit if anyone interested!

Is there a type of drug doctors aren't allowed to dish out? Yes, oestrogen or testosterone.'

This isn’t true.

I’m on testosterone replacement therapy for a hormonal issue that put my natural testosterone in the 85-100 yo bracket when in my early 30s. It did need a lot of hoop jumping but my doc said I’d probs have been given it more freely in a gender reassignment context and that some docs often get alarm bells when a big bloke who clearly lifts weights asks for steroids - they assume you’re abusing them, hence the low natural readings etc (shutdown of natural endocrine systems through androgen abuse).

In the end I find the argument inconsistent.

The NHS are in the pay of big pharma to dish out drugs.
Why not hormone meds to trans people then? Very lucrative. I can see no reason not to.

Is it because big pharma and / or GPs are secret neo Nazis? And that's more important than cash?
Or because big pharma/ the NHS are being influenced by eg the sun and other tabloids? Most pharmaceutical companies are not based in the UK. Why would the British tabloids output be consumed and swallowed by massive pharmaceutical companies in eg USA or Germany?

'They are not dangerous to anyone, the women's toilets, shelters, changing rooms in clothes shops... This is the truth. You don't get the truth in the papers'

What about
Govt stats
FOIs
Statements by prison governors etc
Individual accounts

And anyway.

If we don't get the truth from any news outlets then. Do you mean about everything? Or just some topics?
What about smaller more independent outlets?

Good point sour-

My DH has testosterone on the NHS after they randomly saw it was vvv low on bloods for something else.

I have a lot of views on this topic! Not for here though.

The good news is that according to many sports bodies including IOC he's essentially a woman.

Well that's a bit of a kick in the teeth isn't it :/

'some docs often get alarm bells when a big bloke who clearly lifts weights asks for steroids '

I didn't know steroids were just testosterone!
Interesting.

DH is a massive bloke as well. The idea that his testosterone levels mean he has physiological advantage over a random standard woman with same age lifestyle etc is. Really really silly.

Will OP be back?

OP I always have worries about posters who walk into what they see as the lions den like this.

Are you ok?

Do you actually believe a Trans woman is going to rape you in the toilets? NEWS! Trans women don't hurt or kill women, MEN DO. Trans women are not men. No Trans woman wants to hurt you. It's just the sort of fcked up shtbag men that want to hurt you.

So Karen White? So is KW a trans women or a shitbag man? Cos KW would say they are a trans woman, but KW hurt other women so therefore must be the latter, but it is transphobic to say that and...

I really must try and fall asleep.

I find the position that-

Self ID must always be respected. A woman is anyone who says they are one.

It's impossible for any trans person to harm anyone.

The problem is men and not transwomen.

No man would ever say I'm s woman to get into female spaces

Startlingly naive.

As an example, a few years ago, they changed the blood sugar reading for which you can be described as diabetic.
2 of my kids are T1 diabetic as was my Ex. It hasn't changed in the UK in the last 16 years at least.

a GP gets a bonus every time they diagnose someone as diabetic
Proof please.

Because the media are onside with the mega rich pharmaceutical company... Is there a type of drug doctors aren't allowed to dish out? Yes, oestrogen or testosterone.
Firstly, Big Pharma is an American phenomenon. The drug companies are not based in the UK. Both of those drugs are available in the UK for over 16s. It is inappropriate to give such drugs to children.

There are plenty of countries around the world that take a different approach to trans people, and it's not so difficult to get hormones.
How do you know that no disasters are taking place given that in your eyes the entire media is corrupt and the medical profession is controlled by big pharma? What evidence are you basing your conclusions on please?

Keira Bell got a lot of attention. One person that made a mistake, amongst the thousands of trans kids who are happy as they are. One person. The media made a big deal of it.
KB did not make any mistake. She was a child. Her parents and medical professionals made huge mistakes. There is lots of actual evidence that puberty blockers are neither effective, nor harmless. See CharleyParleys post referenced above.

Would it be wrong if I said that the media in this country have an axe to grind against any minority group?
The media has always been biased, which is why there are a wide selection of rags. I don't believe, either that, the majority of media outlets are anti-trans in the UK, nor that forum members here rely on media sources for their facts.

You saw the racist abuse thing after England didn't win the Euros. It's absolutely shameful that so many people think it's OK to send someone death threats, JUST BECAUSE THEIR SKIN IS A DIFFERENT COLOUR. Encouraged by the Sun.
I haven't seen anything but deep shame for how some England fans behaved. It certainly has not been glorified here.

They killed Princess Diana. A woman who was in the prime of her life, so happy, and bang... killed by the tabloids.
Wasn't her driver drunk?

I don't get the woke thing. It's just a word that has been invented to describe someone who cares for social justice
Yes, it used to mean that indeed and I would have described myself as woke. But like so many other words it has been corrupted to mean something quite different now. Now it implies a somewhat unhinged following of progressive tropes without critical thinking or evidence. I have no idea who changed the meaning or why, like so many other words, like woman.

Trans people are being treated just like gays were 20 or 30 years ago.
No, they really aren't.. most media is pro-trans anti GC. They refer to transwomen as women, they report how fantastic it is for a transwoman to compete in women's sports. The big difference between the LBG movement and the T movement is that LGB didn't take rights away from anyone else to secure their rights. There was absolutely no risk associated with LBG people. Transwomen, who are men by sex, want to enter women's spaces by demand. Take control of what the word woman means. Transwomen offend at the same rate as all men by sex do. There is a reason men are not welcome in women's spaces and that includes men who identify as being female.

It's part of a nazi thing. Caring for children is one thing, but demonising a group of people who just happened to be so unlucky that they were born in the wrong body is another. Have a heart, people.
The nazis experimented on children extensively. In the most heinous, disgusting manner. Indeed it would be nazi territory if we started using innocent children as guinea pigs in some sick social experiment. So no, children need safeguarding from unproven medical experimentation based on a socially constructed ideology.

No transgender person wants to hurt you, or your children. They are not dangerous to anyone, the women's toilets, shelters, changing rooms in clothes shops.
Transwomen offend at the same rate as all types of man. Fact. Women who have been violently gang raped do not want to be in refuges, rape crisis, with men by sex. Sorry you cannot have the humanity to consider how horrifically awful expecting that is. I pity you. Consideration appears to flow in one direction.

So how come so many so called feminists are against Trans women?
Feminists who are GC are pro- women by sex. We believe in sex based rights, not gender ideology, which ignores the inherent biological differences between the sexes. Pro-women.

Do you actually believe a Trans woman is going to rape you in the toilets? NEWS! Trans women don't hurt or kill women, MEN DO. Trans women are not men.
See this is not true. Transwomen are men by sex. They commit rape at the same rate as all men. I don't want to be alone in the toilet with a strange man. I would rather wet myself every single day. Because I get severe PTSD alone with men I don't know, even if feminine looking. I matter too, not just you.

No Trans woman wants to hurt you. It's just the sort of fcked up shtbag men that want to hurt you.
Who can self ID, using just one sentence and then go wherever they like. Those shitbag men are not above saying a few words to get at women. That type of man will do anything. Why make it easier still? Because women don't count to people like you. It doesn't matter to you that 1 in 50 male inmates in prison now identify as women and want to move in to women's prisons, many of whom are convicted rapists and paedophile.
It doesn't matter to you because you don't think about women whatsoever. Only your specific definition of woman. Please detail what one is, because I don't know anymore.

say what you like