Some thoughts on trans, the media and society

[Nefelibata33]

Hello everyone, I'm starting a new thread, cos I posted this message on a thread about Dr Helen Webberley, but people said they didn't want to discuss it, cos the thread was specifically about Dr Webberley. So I thought I would post my message for everyone to see, in a new thread. I think it's worth reading, I would like to discuss things with people. If you want to say something, please do. I will talk to anyone. Abuse me if you want, but I'd prefer if you didn't. I couldn't give a sh*t tbh. Sending love xxx. Here's my original message below

Hi everyone.

Just a post to say something. Firstly, if you are really concerned about big pharma, check that the NHS is in league with big pharma, and they dish out drugs like they're smarties. I have no idea what state you may be in, but you may have experience of this. I find it totally scary that so many people are getting hooked on drugs, cos a doctor prescribed it. This really isn't ok. As an example, a few years ago, they changed the blood sugar reading for which you can be described as diabetic. So more people could be diagnosed as diabetic, and more people could be given diabetic meds, and hey... a GP gets a bonus every time they diagnose someone as diabetic. I think the NHS is great, the nurses who are ready to sacrifice their own lives to help others, like Florence Nightingale. Like my Grandma. Like one of my cousins. But the ones who sit in offices and dish out drugs, they are a real problem.

Why am I saying this? Because doctors will dish out every drug going, even when they have horrendous side effects, make people actually feel worse than they were to begin with. Do we hear anything about this in the media? No. It doesn't sell papers. Any sort of backlash against big pharma? No. Because the media are onside with the mega rich pharmaceutical company directors getting richer and the poor getting poorer, not that the media would say that. Is there a type of drug doctors aren't allowed to dish out? Yes, oestrogen or testosterone.

This is the only thing no doctor can prescribe. There are plenty of countries around the world that take a different approach to trans people, and it's not so difficult to get hormones. With no disasters taking place. Keira Bell got a lot of attention. One person that made a mistake, amongst the thousands of trans kids who are happy as they are. One person. The media made a big deal of it.

Would it be wrong if I said that the media in this country have an axe to grind against any minority group? The Sun carried out a massive racist hate campaign against Raheem Sterling a few years ago. Britain's most prominent black footballer, it wasn't racist at all. You saw the racist abuse thing after England didn't win the Euros. It's absolutely shameful that so many people think it's OK to send someone death threats, JUST BECAUSE THEIR SKIN IS A DIFFERENT COLOUR. Encouraged by the Sun. The tabloids are the cancer of this country, our society would be much better without them I think, but we're stuck with them. They killed Princess Diana. A woman who was in the prime of her life, so happy, and bang... killed by the tabloids. There was a massive outpouring of emotion, but did it stop anyone from buying the tabloids? No. Nobody learns. I've read on this site, all this woke this woke that. Prince Harry has been accused of being woke. Cos he married a mixed race woman, and he doesn't want her to end up like his Mum. Think about it. Not "woke", a loving human being.

I don't get the woke thing. It's just a word that has been invented to describe someone who cares for social justice, and is right on. Can someone please explain to me why that's so bad? I really don't get it. Why are kind people a problem? Could it be, that there are just a lot of people who aren't very kind?

Back onto the media, they are totally corrupt, lying bullshtters. GB News is really struggling, so to boost ratings, they decided to attack the Trans community. To boost ratings! I guess that's more entertaining for the sort of people who watch it. I am now going to say something. I don't care who you are, but just realise this. Trans people are being treated just like gays were 20 or 30 years ago. The media do this to sell papers, and make money. Rupert Murdoch is Australian, he's an immigrant, but his papers bang on about immigration. Fcking hypocrite. The demonisation of Trans people is just part of a large scale war by the right wing/neo nazi movement. Are any of you reading this wondering now? It's part of a nazi thing. Caring for children is one thing, but demonising a group of people who just happened to be so unlucky that they were born in the wrong body is another. Have a heart, people. No transgender person wants to hurt you, or your children. They are not dangerous to anyone, the women's toilets, shelters, changing rooms in clothes shops... This is the truth. You don't get the truth in the papers. The papers don't have anyone's best interest at heart, they are just trying to make money.

I've said what I needed to say. I came on Mumsnet cos I'd heard of it, and I wanted to see how people think. I've received quite a bit of abuse off people, quite nasty, and some questions about my level of intelligence. Don't worry, I'm intelligent, and I won't stoop to the level of insulting someone else for being different, or having different opinions.

I am a feminist. There, I said it. I would die to protect a woman. So how come so many so called feminists are against Trans women? Do you actually believe a Trans woman is going to rape you in the toilets? NEWS! Trans women don't hurt or kill women, MEN DO. Trans women are not men. No Trans woman wants to hurt you. It's just the sort of fcked up shtbag men that want to hurt you.

If anyone wants to comment on anything I wrote, feel free. Make it intelligent, no gratuitous abuse please X

“I said I would respond to everyone's comments, but chickenyhead, you absolutely exhaust me. I felt drained after I'd read your post. Not trying to insult you, I guess we are just different. I would reply to it, but...”

That’s really not fair. What is the value of offering dialogue then denying it when someone responds to you?

These threads follow the same pattern.

Condescending to women and their feminism - they're all wrong and just need informing from a higher authority.

The disclosure that the person isn't a woman.

The anger that their demands aren't being met.

The flounce.

@BaronMunchausen

“I said I would respond to everyone's comments, but chickenyhead, you absolutely exhaust me. I felt drained after I'd read your post. Not trying to insult you, I guess we are just different. I would reply to it, but...”

That’s really not fair. What is the value of offering dialogue then denying it when someone responds to you?

The clue was in the last sentence of the original post where the OP specified how responses should be written.

What a fascinating read, once again I'm blown away by some of the comments on here, you women are truly remarkable, your knowledge and way of writing amazes me. @Nefelibata33 what I take from this is that you are aren't really seeing this from a women's point of view. We are not hating on trans women, we might very well question how this ideology is affecting young people, sports, prisons, women's rights but we don't hate trans people. We also don't hate all men, and you do seem to have an issue with men, we just know that some aren't to be trusted, so we want to keep women only spaces women only. Why are you expecting women to feel comfortable changing, showering and sharing intimate space with people with penises? You might well be a kind, decent human, I think most people are, but that doesn't really mean anything when we are discussing rights, laws, safeguarding etc. Just because we think trans women are trans women, (male by default) that doesn't mean we hate you, it doesn't mean if we knew you that we wouldn't be friends, respect your pronouns, treat you with respect, feel a kinship maybe, but the truth is biology can't be changed, From your writing you seem a bit vulnerable, so I hope you are ok. As an aside, you mention you have a penis, are you planning on keeping this, it is a choice or are you planning SRS at one point? Also some of the comments and links that people have posted are really very interesting, evidenced and fact based so I would encourage you to read them properly, even if you choose not to believe them Also, Like another poster, I would also like to know what JKR said that was so awful, it seemed a fairly balanced piece to me...

Yeah that’s a long winded aggressive fact free rant that does nothing at all to persuade anyone of your case

Women are not support humans

@Datun

These threads follow the same pattern.

Condescending to women and their feminism - they're all wrong and just need informing from a higher authority.

The disclosure that the person isn't a woman.

The anger that their demands aren't being met.

The flounce.

Exactly. I’d also include “complete blanking of women sharing their traumatic experiences”

Chickenyhead

If you’re such a great feminist, OP, what are your thoughts on how female socialisation can be leveraged by men/males to provide sympathy and support? Anything occur there?

You also seem not to understand how the NHS works, and none of the things you've said about Big Pharma make logical sense in the UK context.

Let's say a new patient is disgnosed with diabetes. In the USA, 3 people/bodies are involved:
the doctor/hospital prescribes medication
the patient pays (generally through insurance)
the international pharmaceutical company gets the money
Under this system, the prescribing doctor/hospital bears no cost for the prescription and probably takes a cut from the pharmaceutical company. So, the more people who get diabetes, the more money the hospital gets

Let's say the same patientbis diagnosed in the UK. Here, things work differently
The doctor/hospital prescribes AND pays for the medication.
The international pharmaceutical company gets the money
The cost of the diabetes medication comes from the same pot of money as the doctor's salary. So the more people who get diabetes, the less money the hospital gets.

There is literally no incentive for a UK doctor to over-prescribe anything, so everything you say about Big Pharma is irrelevant here. The UK system is much less open to abuse, and this probably goes some way towards understanding why the UK is more reluctant than the US to medicalise our children and create lifelong patients: because over here its being funded by public money

Exactly. I’d also include “complete blanking of women sharing their traumatic experiences”

Indeed. Bit too real and inconvenient.

@BaronMunchausen

“I said I would respond to everyone's comments, but chickenyhead, you absolutely exhaust me. I felt drained after I'd read your post. Not trying to insult you, I guess we are just different. I would reply to it, but...”

That’s really not fair. What is the value of offering dialogue then denying it when someone responds to you?

Its a bit hypocritical when the OP was just a mass of meandering words

Plus the ‘make it intelligent’ 😳 you first OP

As for oestrogen, it may be easy to get it if you're biologically female, just try getting it if you're not.

If you've read any of the perimenopause or menopause threads on MN you'd know that some women are at the end of their tether, to the point of being suicidal, and are not prescribed HRT by the doctor even when they go through menopause early, potentially leaving them with serious health problems such as osteoporosis in later life.

Yes, OP no need to announce what genitals you have. We could all tell instantly that you are male. Despite rejecting all male stereotypes (good) your male entitlement and hatred towards women entered the room with you. We also know you are American. The UK has counties not states. This is only relevant because you seem intent on spreading lies about our NHS yet I'd wager you've had no experience with the NHS. I still wish you well and hope you have a good mental health support.

@AlfonsoTheMango

tl;dr: Women - think this way, act this way.

Yep.

Basically mansplaining.

What on earth should be done about this parrot?

Do hate speech laws apply?

mobile.twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1421412560604180484

Oh I saw that parrot thing

Poor Pretty Polly is probably trying to escape her cage only to be locked up due to a non-crime crime.

Should PETA and Amnesty get involved?

there's absolutely no reason why anyone should ever know what's down there

Being celibate is fine, but please don’t ever forget your body’s biology. - Eg get your prostate checked once you hit 50 - and make sure your GP knows ‘what’s down there’.

Amnesty get involved?

Hope parrot's not in Ireland as Amnesty Ireland would probably send the Gardai round.

OP, you are welcome to your beliefs, but if they don’t fit in with reality people are obviously going to disagree. Stating trans women are not men is like saying “My cat talks to me in English”. You may believe this, but you can’t reasonably be offended if others don’t.

You say I am a feminist. There, I said it. I would die to protect a woman. So how come so many so called feminists are against Trans women? Do you actually believe a Trans woman is going to rape you in the toilets? NEWS! Trans women don't hurt or kill women, MEN DO. Trans women are not men.

You have made several statements that can easily be disproved. Look on Mumsnet “this never happens” thread, or transcrimeuk.com, for many examples of transwomen hurting and killing women. Also killing children and men.

Far from being penalised, male criminals who tell the court they are trans have recently been given non-custodial sentences because the judge reckons they would have a bad time in prison.

At the other end of the importance scale, Rupert Murdoch is a US citizen. My Australian friends point out that he dropped his Australian citizenship to make more money in the USA.

Think John Cleese was way ahead of the postmodernist

m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZw35VUBdzo

I continue to be impressed by the posters who take the time to post measured and considerate responses, I really lack the patience in the face of such foolishness. Maybe its because my GP has a policy of nor prescribing HRT for early menopause who know's?

Chickenyhead I'm sorry for what you've been through and that OP has dismissed your experience so blithely.

Haven’t read the full thread but this from the OP stood out to me:

Trans women are NOT men. If you believe that, you've got no fcking clue, and you don't know what you're talking about.*

Just swap the ‘men’ for ‘women’ then you might have some idea why women are angry too.

@StrawberrySquirrelThief

Haven’t read the full thread but this from the OP stood out to me:

Trans women are NOT men. If you believe that, you've got no fcking clue, and you don't know what you're talking about.*

Just swap the ‘men’ for ‘women’ then you might have some idea why women are angry too.

It's the transparent aggression that's so predictable. No actual argument or explanation. Just anger.

I think the OP is in the U.K. because their syntax is British. But I think they've got their entire understanding of healthcare from the internet so I'm hoping they're actually as young as they sound.

When I see a thread title on this board with the words 'some thoughts' or 'discuss' or 'educate yourself!!!', I know before opening it what the gist is going to be. It's always, always 'you hateful bigots, TWAW!'

Never a thoughtful discussion about the issues of people who are male (however they identify) in female spaces. Just a 'shut up women, you're wrong'.

It's very telling. No debate, no evidence, right?

@Clymene

I think the OP is in the U.K. because their syntax is British. But I think they've got their entire understanding of healthcare from the internet so I'm hoping they're actually as young as they sound.

My impression is that OP is young and has been fed this information by other people. None of the info in the rant is accurate or first hand.

@Nefelibata33 You are talking to adult women who work in various sectors including the women's sector (Rape Crisis, women's shelters), social work, prisons, hospitals, the Civil Service, education, and the public sector.

As a result, we have a good grasp of equality and employment laws, and many of us have direct experience of the kind of situations that you talk about. Or ignore.

Instead of coming here to lecture, why don't you read some threads and ask some questions?

Do you actually believe a Trans woman is going to rape you in the toilets? NEWS! Trans women don't hurt or kill women, MEN DO. Trans women are not men. No Trans woman wants to hurt you. It's just the sort of fcked up shtbag men that want to hurt you.

I would say it's incredibly dangerous to push a narrative that someone who is in a very high risk class of person (ie. Male) can come out of that high risk class and become zero risk, simply by declaring themselves to no longer be in that class.

What you have said there is the equivalent of me saying to an employer who wants a DBS check from me 'Do you actually believe I am going to hurt a child? NEWS! I don't hurt children! I'm not doing a DBS, it's really hurtful to me that you are tarring me with the same brush as everyone else, how can you think that of me, if I wanted to hurt a child I wouldn't go to all the effort of applying for jobs in a school would I, there are loads of ways I could do it.'

The more you go on about it, the more suspicious it makes people tbh.

What is the difference between a transwoman and a man, apart from their inner feelings?