Some thoughts on trans, the media and society

[Nefelibata33]

Hello everyone, I'm starting a new thread, cos I posted this message on a thread about Dr Helen Webberley, but people said they didn't want to discuss it, cos the thread was specifically about Dr Webberley. So I thought I would post my message for everyone to see, in a new thread. I think it's worth reading, I would like to discuss things with people. If you want to say something, please do. I will talk to anyone. Abuse me if you want, but I'd prefer if you didn't. I couldn't give a sh*t tbh. Sending love xxx. Here's my original message below

Hi everyone.

Just a post to say something. Firstly, if you are really concerned about big pharma, check that the NHS is in league with big pharma, and they dish out drugs like they're smarties. I have no idea what state you may be in, but you may have experience of this. I find it totally scary that so many people are getting hooked on drugs, cos a doctor prescribed it. This really isn't ok. As an example, a few years ago, they changed the blood sugar reading for which you can be described as diabetic. So more people could be diagnosed as diabetic, and more people could be given diabetic meds, and hey... a GP gets a bonus every time they diagnose someone as diabetic. I think the NHS is great, the nurses who are ready to sacrifice their own lives to help others, like Florence Nightingale. Like my Grandma. Like one of my cousins. But the ones who sit in offices and dish out drugs, they are a real problem.

Why am I saying this? Because doctors will dish out every drug going, even when they have horrendous side effects, make people actually feel worse than they were to begin with. Do we hear anything about this in the media? No. It doesn't sell papers. Any sort of backlash against big pharma? No. Because the media are onside with the mega rich pharmaceutical company directors getting richer and the poor getting poorer, not that the media would say that. Is there a type of drug doctors aren't allowed to dish out? Yes, oestrogen or testosterone.

This is the only thing no doctor can prescribe. There are plenty of countries around the world that take a different approach to trans people, and it's not so difficult to get hormones. With no disasters taking place. Keira Bell got a lot of attention. One person that made a mistake, amongst the thousands of trans kids who are happy as they are. One person. The media made a big deal of it.

Would it be wrong if I said that the media in this country have an axe to grind against any minority group? The Sun carried out a massive racist hate campaign against Raheem Sterling a few years ago. Britain's most prominent black footballer, it wasn't racist at all. You saw the racist abuse thing after England didn't win the Euros. It's absolutely shameful that so many people think it's OK to send someone death threats, JUST BECAUSE THEIR SKIN IS A DIFFERENT COLOUR. Encouraged by the Sun. The tabloids are the cancer of this country, our society would be much better without them I think, but we're stuck with them. They killed Princess Diana. A woman who was in the prime of her life, so happy, and bang... killed by the tabloids. There was a massive outpouring of emotion, but did it stop anyone from buying the tabloids? No. Nobody learns. I've read on this site, all this woke this woke that. Prince Harry has been accused of being woke. Cos he married a mixed race woman, and he doesn't want her to end up like his Mum. Think about it. Not "woke", a loving human being.

I don't get the woke thing. It's just a word that has been invented to describe someone who cares for social justice, and is right on. Can someone please explain to me why that's so bad? I really don't get it. Why are kind people a problem? Could it be, that there are just a lot of people who aren't very kind?

Back onto the media, they are totally corrupt, lying bullshtters. GB News is really struggling, so to boost ratings, they decided to attack the Trans community. To boost ratings! I guess that's more entertaining for the sort of people who watch it. I am now going to say something. I don't care who you are, but just realise this. Trans people are being treated just like gays were 20 or 30 years ago. The media do this to sell papers, and make money. Rupert Murdoch is Australian, he's an immigrant, but his papers bang on about immigration. Fcking hypocrite. The demonisation of Trans people is just part of a large scale war by the right wing/neo nazi movement. Are any of you reading this wondering now? It's part of a nazi thing. Caring for children is one thing, but demonising a group of people who just happened to be so unlucky that they were born in the wrong body is another. Have a heart, people. No transgender person wants to hurt you, or your children. They are not dangerous to anyone, the women's toilets, shelters, changing rooms in clothes shops... This is the truth. You don't get the truth in the papers. The papers don't have anyone's best interest at heart, they are just trying to make money.

I've said what I needed to say. I came on Mumsnet cos I'd heard of it, and I wanted to see how people think. I've received quite a bit of abuse off people, quite nasty, and some questions about my level of intelligence. Don't worry, I'm intelligent, and I won't stoop to the level of insulting someone else for being different, or having different opinions.

I am a feminist. There, I said it. I would die to protect a woman. So how come so many so called feminists are against Trans women? Do you actually believe a Trans woman is going to rape you in the toilets? NEWS! Trans women don't hurt or kill women, MEN DO. Trans women are not men. No Trans woman wants to hurt you. It's just the sort of fcked up shtbag men that want to hurt you.

If anyone wants to comment on anything I wrote, feel free. Make it intelligent, no gratuitous abuse please X

And FYI OP, I'm afraid that half of the transwomen currently incarcerated in U.K. prisons are in there for sex offences. So your assertion that they never pose a risk to women and children is manifestly false.

When the OP ignored @Chickenyhead 's story, it actually made my stomach clench. That level of self-absorption is pretty breath-taking, and surely implies either extreme youth or extraordinary emotional immaturity.

 for @Chickenyhead

Whether the op is US or U.K., GNC Ben is young, US and describes a number of issues in the trans community very well in this YouTube film. Specifically coercion.

If OP is still watching, here's a little reminder...

Women are not 'non-player characters' in a game. We're not extras in the film of a man's life. We're not support humans there to make men's lives easier. We still exist when men leave the room.

We are fully-rounded humans with hopes and dreams of our own. We have fears, regrets and secrets. We have hobbies and responsibilities, and we maintain relationships with people we love (and those we don't). We have opionions and you may not like some of them. We get angry.

Women are human.

OP your sex was obvious from your post.
You plea for understanding but don't extend that courtesy to women. Have you even read any replies to your vitriol?? There are many posts here that will break it down for you- or even a quick Google would assist you.
You sound as if you are coming from a place of anger and hurt; I hope you have some real life support.

@Nefelibata33 You are talking to adult women who work in various sectors including the women's sector (Rape Crisis, women's shelters), social work, prisons, hospitals, the Civil Service, education, and the public sector.

As a result, we have a good grasp of equality and employment laws, and many of us have direct experience of the kind of situations that you talk about. Or ignore.

Instead of coming here to lecture, why don't you read some threads and ask some questions?

Like others, it strikes me that a lot of individuals who post like the OP aren't really interested in the nitty-gritty of either women's lives, or the legalities and frameworks surrounding equality law and child protection.

It's not big picture enough. It doesn't fit on a placard saying trans rights are human rights. Try as they might, they can't find the soundbite.

It's dull, they can't bring themselves to give it any headroom. When faced with the reality that women end up in rape refuges due to male violence, and therefore don't want to see any males, they can't legitimately formulate the outrage required to retaliate.

There is no evidence here, at all, that women hate people because they are transgender. But I'm sure the OP will find some, nonetheless.

Chickenyhead I'm so sorry that happened to you. 😢

Hi everyone. Me again

Can I just say to the people that suggested that I "hate women". What planet do you live on? I really want to try and work out how some of you think, because if you think that I hate women, you're just insane. I think I'm probably never going to get through to some of you that I'm not "dangerous".... I mean people posting stuff about trans women raping and murdering women and children. PLEASE! When has that ever happened?

I despair. I really do. I'm not trying to have a go at anyone, but it seems that my very existence is enough to provoke ill feeling. I just want you to know that trans women don't hate women, are not a danger to women, are not a danger to children, are not a danger to anyone. Where has this idea come from?

I have nothing but love for people, I much prefer female company, I can't emphasise enough how much I think all women are fantastic. I'll never be able to call myself one, but does it really matter? Why do we have to argue about stuff? JK Rowling feels very strongly about definitions. If I can't call myself a woman, am I allowed to call myself a Trans woman? Does that bother anyone? Does any of this really matter? No one is trying to steal anything from anyone, or force anything on anyone.

I always try to put myself in someone else's shoes, when I talk to them. Put yourself in my shoes. You're all female, how would you like it if you'd been born with male genitalia? You wouldn't be very happy would you? It happens to some unlucky people. Do you think I enjoy being like this? No. I'm about as low as it gets, in modern day UK. But I'm still a human being, and I would just like to get some sort of feeling that I'm not the antichrist, or a danger to humanity, or a danger to children, or whatever. Can't anyone see that?

No such thing as born in the wrong body. If we had male genitalia we'd be male.

OP you sound distressed. You aren't going to convince us here that twaw and males are no threat to women if they identify a certain way.

I think you may be better off contacting the samaritans or someone to discuss how you're feeling. Go well

www.samaritans.org/

What is your response to @Chickenyhead 's story, OP? It's pretty gut-wrenching, and relevant, and yet you have made no comment.

Why should this be all about you?

Have you read anything on this thread?

Anything at all?

There is an entire thread on her about transwomen violence to women and children. Even on this very thread someone posted the Karen White link.

I no longer believe that you are innocently confused. You are deliberately ignoring us and insisting we all focus on you.

Me, me, me, me, me....

No!

Go, live your life happily, do as you please. But stop bullying biological women and trampling their rights.

And what do you mean 'all women are fantastic'? We're not a homogeneous group.

We have our share of angels and arseholes. We're human.

. I mean people posting stuff about trans women raping and murdering women and children. PLEASE! When has that ever happened?

People have posted lots of links and examples of these very things. Spend some time reading them.

Bet you won't though, cos PLEASE! When has that ever happened?

Datun

It is indeed boring if it doesn’t fit into a soundbite.

Unfortunately, if you have outsourced your thinking to self identified ‘thought leaders’ of a movement, you cannot see that the foundations for your ill informed arguments are so easily dislodged.

And you then compound this by repeating the ‘disagreement is hate and all those disagreeing are ‘hating on’ you’ lie that you have been told over and over by people you have been led to believe care about you rather than just getting ‘likes’ and securing their space as a media star.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

A thread for you to ignore

The posters on here post evidence, links, research, personal accounts and well reasoned, thoughtfully considered discussion to explain why women are fighting for their sex based rights and what we get in return is a stream of hyperbole.

I mean people posting stuff about trans women raping and murdering women and children. PLEASE! When has that ever happened?

It has happened. Posters on here have evidenced specific examples. You can't just hand wave them away because it doesn't suit your narrative.

As a pp said, we are not non player characters in your life. We are people with our own views and opinions. We are not here to validate you.

I mean people posting stuff about trans women raping and murdering women and children. PLEASE! When has that ever happened?

You are now posting complete nonsense. If we posted the links you still would not look at them. We have shown you evidence and you have ignored it. I realise it is hard to take it in but please do read the links, read the evidence.

@Nefelibata33 Stop despairing, read the answers you have got and actually engage with them instead of treating this like an abstract game.

Its not a game to us. We are real people.

I'm not sure if this is a wind-up, drunk posting, an inadequate attempt to be a TRA, or some pub is missing its bore.

Bizarre posting from the OP.

OP, you sound as if you aren't in a very good place right now. I'd be worried about you if you were my son or if you turned up at my workplace and said the things you're saying on here. Do you have anyone in real life who can support you in accessing some help?

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/41-per-cent-trans-transgender-trans-women-prisoners-sex-offenders-false-study-statistic-this-is-why-a8072431.html%3famp

Another thread to ignore OP

This thread is so shambolic.

I opened it at 5am this morning, couldn't make head nor tail of the OP's writing style, and left. Felt like I'd tumbled through the looking-glass and it was just far too early for a mad-hatter's tea party.

I've just come back on to see if I can make any sense of it.

... nope. Kudos to those trying. It seems fruitless.

As for this: There have been some comments, like, trans women are just like men.

Transwomen are not like men. They are men. Out of courtesy, if I meet a man who wishes they were a woman and who I think deserves respect (and I decide who deserves that respect and who doesn't), I call them a "transwoman". But they are biologically men and don't magically stop being men because they say so.

“I always try to put myself in someone else's shoes, when I talk to them. Put yourself in my shoes. You're all female, how would you like it if you'd been born with male genitalia? You wouldn't be very happy would you?”

If I was born with male genitalia, I’d be a man, and probably perfectly happy about it. I, like most the women on here, have no internal sense of gender. In that situation, I’d have had no experience of being a women, so how would I know what it would feel like to be one?

As it is, I have no experience of being a man, or black, or Spanish, or going to a private school, or being an immigrant, so how can I pontificate with any certainty about what it feels like to be/do any of those things?

If you are a trans women OP, you have experience of being a man and being a trans women. You do not know what it feels like to be a woman. You presumably have experience of feeling very uncomfortable in your male body, but this does not mean that you are a woman.

@Nefelibata33

You are not posting in good faith

Your continual denial that transwomen could hurt women flies in the face of evidence from the MoJ.

It’s like MRAs who insist women lie about rape despite the (pitifully low) convictions.

And before you get sad, outraged and defensive either a) look at the info women are posting or b) drop the “this NEVER happens” lie.

Again, anyone lurking- can you see how lies are presented rather than accepting the reality of what is going on? Time and time again.

OP, I’ve read all your responses and I overwhelmingly believe that you’ve been told (possibly by the activists mentioned) how horrible, mean, toxic us GC ladies are. You’ve come here with this preconceived notion, expecting hate. You’ve received the opposite and now you’re disappointed.
I don’t believe you ever intended to have a discussion, answer questions or read the replies. You wanted to be able to say ‘You were right, look at all these hateful replies’
I don’t hate anyone, men or transwomen. I feel incredibly sad that society (men) won’t accept gender non conforming men.
It sounds like you’ve had some terrible experiences. I hope you’ve got the support you need