Posie Parker's latest - Glasgow

[TheShadowyFeminist]

I wilted in the heat so missed the pub afterwards. But PP's comments on the 'fawning' I'm finding interesting. Because even at a meeting of women who are fighting for their rights, and the right to say no to any male, irrespective of identity, being given access to female only services/space/provision/sport etc. it seems that female socialisation kicks in when a male wears a dress.

I've been involved in this fight for a number of years now, and I've witnessed how the inclusion of males, irrespective of claimed gender identity, often shifts the tone, the balance, the atmosphere for women & limits what they will say/do to further their cause. It also means that some women who really need that female solidarity can't access it.

I think the 'fawning' is something that we al need to reflect on & work out why this is how some of us behave over someone who (as far as I'm aware) has failed to acknowledge their part in writing guidance for schools that breach female children's rights under the UNCRC.

I think we all need to 'be more Posie' in life & activism.

Watched video underneath that one it was like Mrs Browns but without school kids, so they played their transition out with audience, yes DH won’t want her wife at no event as all eyes have to be on him.

You don’t have to be fan of Posie she isn’t asking anyone to. Doesn’t command need for attention or what qualifications woman got to make you worthy at woman to have a voice.

DH all time announces theirs it’s irritating and does it like preacher their words are god like

clearly DH has some sort of hero status. I dont know why. DH appears to support the GC (hate that term) position and reminds us often that they are a science teacher, but DH accesses women's spaces and is on record as being AGP - references above. So why does DH get the pass to women's spaces and not say, the lovely Alex with the beard at Stonewall?

Exactly.

It strikes me that Debbie Hayton disagrees with the TRAs, not out of any identification with women, nor out of any interest in safeguarding vulnerable people, but purely out of self-interest: out of fear that TRAs will spoil things for Debbie.

Compare with Miranda Yardley. Miranda appears to be grounded in reality, and understands that the way Miranda feels about their sex and gender identity, and the way Miranda has chosen to deal with them, has no bearing on Miranda's interactions as a male with the needs and rights of women.

Compare with Miranda Yardley. Miranda appears to be grounded in reality, and understands that the way Miranda feels about their sex and gender identity, and the way Miranda has chosen to deal with them, has no bearing on Miranda's interactions as a male with the needs and rights of women.

But their inclusion in feminist spaces excludes their female ex partners(s?) and daughter just as Hayton's does.

Well yes. The only thing that DH ever says is something that women are already saying. And have been all along.

DH is male...gravitas.
PP is female...hysteria.

(Just to make it completely clear, I am being cynical. But we all know that the same things said by women and by men are interpreted differently according to the speaker's sex.)

@TinselAngel

Compare with Miranda Yardley. Miranda appears to be grounded in reality, and understands that the way Miranda feels about their sex and gender identity, and the way Miranda has chosen to deal with them, has no bearing on Miranda's interactions as a male with the needs and rights of women.

But their inclusion in feminist spaces excludes their female ex partners(s?) and daughter just as Hayton's does.

Except that AFAIK Miranda is not included as some sort of trans guru.

(Is/Was MY married?)

Except that AFAIK Miranda is not included as some sort of trans guru.

(Is/Was MY married?)

What are they included for then?

I don't know if MY was married but I understand MY has a daughter.

When has female teacher taken kids on journey through her pregnancy telling kids every stage including what like to have morning sickness like a show & tell.

Kid : ms you pregnant
Teacher: yes now open page 4 in ur books

End of not even big announcement of leaving class because her babies pressed against her bladder or her class need to be moved near toilets.

I’d been really annoyed as parent at DH school and no way that was not distracting.

DH has and is still doing same but with women.

Please pass on my thanks to Posie to putting it out there what many also think and for saying it to DH face, nothing I wouldn’t say just I’d used more fuck words in saying it

But what I would say is the gatekeeping involved in the medical reports within the present gender recognition act offer safeguards against abuse and reassures society. Sweep those safeguards away and we're left in different territory. If any male person can become a female person just because they say so then some will be tempted to do it for nefarious purposes.

The GRC process makes no assessment of whether a particular man who applies represents risk/s to girls and/or women in single sex spaces or services. It is not within the remit of the panel or the GRA legislation to do so.

JULIE BINDEL FOR THE DAILY MAIL
PUBLISHED: 23 July 2021

'I was sexually assaulted in a women's prison... by a fellow inmate with male genitalia': Read Amy's story and decide - can it be right to put trans sex offenders in female jails?'

(extract)
"Her sense of shock, and the awful aura of menace that closed in on her, still haunt former prisoner Amy Jones.

Jail should have been a place free from the predators who had sexually assaulted and raped her in her childhood, but the terrifying presence looming over her suggested anything but.

'The look in her eyes was frightening,' Amy says, her voice quiet but assertive. 'She leered at me before lunging forward and grabbing my breasts hard. She squeezed them and I cried out in pain. I was terrified she would rape me.'

The prisoner who sexually assaulted Amy — we cannot legally identify her, so we shall call her J — is a transgender woman, with a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC), and therefore referred to by the female pronoun, but still had male genitalia.

Amy was equally well aware that J still had male genitalia because she often intimidated her and fellow female prisoners at HMP Bronzefield in Ashford, Middlesex, by exposing them.

Moreover, J was serving time for a serious sexual assault on a child and was clearly a danger to other inmates. Yet she had secured a coveted job as a cleaner at the prison gym where Amy also worked. And it was while she was in the gym's lavatory block that J assaulted her in 2017.

'What were the officers even thinking, letting her clean toilets in which women would be in a state of undress and alone? Why was there a child sex offender with a penis cleaning the toilets of the gym in a women's prison?'

J had already stridently asserted her 'right' to be treated exactly like other women prisoners, although this clearly terrorised them." (continues)
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9819631/I-sexually-assaulted-womens-prison-fellow-inmate-male-genitalia.html

[quote R0wantrees]A Woman's Place is a safe port (Debbie Hayton, Liverpool, 25th September 2018)

transcript
(extracts)
"I'm a trans rights activist campaigning for trans people who do face less favourable treatment in the workplace... trans self-identification poses huge risks to transsexual people. At risk is the social acceptance we're built up in recent years and much of that is informal and based on trust... I'm speaking from a transsexual perspective and I use that word deliberately, transsexual. Some people will seem to think it's archaic and antediluvian, but for me it has meaning. It implies somebody who has who has made or intends to make a meaningful transition that has been driven by gender dysphoria" (continues)

"A third point was to say that self-identification risks the informal social acceptance that transsexual people have built up in recent years. There was a thread on Mumsnet that some of you might have read, that went on for about 700 posts and I read it, yeah. But that's that's what I mean, I predicted this two years ago. I wrote in my blog two years ago that we're risking this acceptance. I'm seeing with my own eyes and the reason is it's because people are concerned" (continues)

"We need to protect women and girls from male violence, oppression and intimidation and sex segregation is central to many safeguarding policies. How do you divide society if it's not strictly by biological sex?

Now for years transsexuals have been quietly included by women, either as a right if we have a GRC or by consent in many cases like in my own where there is no GRC. In real life women do include me in those spaces because they said they want me to be there.

But I suspect some in the room may think that this is an imposition and I see where people are coming from. I'm happy to debate this point in the pub later with people.

But what I would say is the gatekeeping involved in the medical reports within the present gender recognition act offer safeguards against abuse and reassures society. Sweep those safeguards away and we're left in different territory. If any male person can become a female person just because they say so then some will be tempted to do it for nefarious purposes.

I hear the argument that men wouldn't, wouldn't do that. Well I was a man for long enough to know that some men definitely would do that and that they're precisely the men that women need to worry about. And they're also the men that transsexuals need to worry about as well. Abusers will take opportunities wherever safeguarding is weakest and every time someone abuses the system then its our credibility that's being damaged. Women say how can I trust you?" (continues)

[/quote] Well that's eye-opening. Good lord, it's wrong on almost every count, too.

Ray Blanchards typology divided transwomen into HSTS (homosexual transsexuals), and AGPs.

So was Hayton saying that he was a transsexual then? Despite now saying he's actually AGP?

As others have now perceived, it seems to be all about anticipating where the wind is going to blow.

Also being a prolific sex offender is absolutely no bar to getting a GRC. Either DH doesn't know that, in which case why the hell is he writing guidelines for schools, or he does know that and is being deceitful.

If any male person can become a female person just because they say so then some will be tempted to do it for nefarious purposes.

Surely accessing female only spaces because of a sexually motivated identity, is nefarious???

So was Hayton saying that he was a transsexual then? Despite now saying he's actually AGP?

Quillette
February 2, 2020
'I May Have Gender Dysphoria. But I Still Prefer to Base My Life on Biology, Not Fantasy'
written by Debbie Hayton
(extract)
"Yes, gender dysphoria is a real condition. I know, because I have it: the feeling that my male biology is at odds with my desire to have a female body. But I don’t have to invent some mystical spiritual force called gender identity to explain it.

Just as there is no single cause of chest pain or headaches, there doesn’t need to be a single cause of gender dysphoria. But there is a well-observed typology. In the 1980s, American-Canadian sexologist Ray Blanchard proposed that transsexualism (as it was then commonly called) in males generally manifested as either (1) effeminate gay men seeking to further accentuate their appeal to other men (homosexual transsexualism, or HSTS); or (2) heterosexual autogynephiles—self-attracted men who prefer to conceive of themselves as women—who typically come out as trans women later in life (and often to the great surprise of family and friends). The most vocal and aggressive proponents of trans rights—biological males who often will express themselves aggressively to women who bring up the issue of biology—appear to be drawn disproportionately from this second, autogynephilic category. (continues)

I speak from experience when I say that it’s difficult for autogynephiles to admit the simple truth that they are simply heterosexual males who use the conceit of female self-identification as a means to rationalize their sexual attraction to a female version of themselves. As any sex therapist can attest, people often feel ashamed about unusual sexual proclivities. Shame is a powerful emotion, and a person who suffers from it often will be driven to control their narrative in a way that protects their sense of self-worth.

Autogynephilia drove my own transsexualism. (continues)

quillette.com/2020/02/02/i-may-have-gender-dysphoria-but-i-still-prefer-to-base-my-life-on-biology-not-fantasy/

Risking a deletion for this, but can we be clear what DH's own words are admitting here? DH finds a specific sexual gratification from you seeing DH in feminine dress, and using feminine pronouns etc. because that's how DH sees and desires DH.
You are part of the AGP, whether you want to be or not.

intends to make a meaningful transition

Is he on many transexuals Xmas cards list? certainly wouldn’t want any advice from him on body dysphoria either.

I very much disagree with transgender stuff so naturally assume they was rattled about DH due to women he been hang off rather than stuff spouting. So yes I’d be just as furious as am now, him getting a chair to speak for trans.

If DH was old kids TV programme it would be mixture of Morph from Tony Hart, Mr Ben & few of the Mr.Men characters rolled into one.

DH morph himself more than playdoh

As any sex therapist can attest, people often feel ashamed about unusual sexual proclivities. Shame is a powerful emotion, and a person who suffers from it often will be driven to control their narrative in a way that protects their sense of self-worth.

No shit.

I don’t know any of women I know in r/l that gave likes of DH permission let alone wanted him in our spaces, so those who say he an ally how to you justify telling trans no you not coming in when DH said this

“ In real life women do include me in those spaces because they said they want me to be there” taken from above transcript of DH

Also which list of women is he ally too? The rich? Those in teaching etc etc as it definitely ain’t all women nor even a majority

@Datun

As any sex therapist can attest, people often feel ashamed about unusual sexual proclivities. Shame is a powerful emotion, and a person who suffers from it often will be driven to control their narrative in a way that protects their sense of self-worth.

No shit.

Activism in this area seems to promote that guilt and shame in everyone else.

It prevents people thinking things through clearly and addressing the issues. They just want to help, to assuage the guilt.

It has powerful knock-on effects.

June 2019 FWR thread, OP DancingRaven wrote,

"Boundaries and Allies

I came across a post on Twitter which included what appears as a screenshot from a WhatsApp conversation with a gender critical ally. The image is attached for reference.

It is so disappointing to see this, are women's boundaries just amusing to everyone? How can we work together when our sex based rights are just 'politics'?"
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3605090-Boundaries-and-Allies

It is worth reading the thread

Just read this thread. I find it pleasing that women here are not interested in fawning over DH.

Why was I surprised that DH showed up in that thread!

I’m guessing wasn’t just M.Bergdorf DH tried to climb on the back of. Is there any group of people DH hasn’t ? Are pets next

Thanks this all been helpful & not on hill on my own after all.

I don’t believe any views DH as anything other than biological sex, which comes with male privilege of what he says goes he if makes mistakes all is forgiven.

Whereas women the standards are higher, too higher from some that women must have receipts checked with fine tooth comb and one mistake she is haul over coals forever.

DH on that was then he didn’t mean it look what he done now

Posie - didn’t ask nicely so burn the witch

Don’t believe *anyone view

Well, thank goodness for Posie Parker that’s all I can say, otherwise women might end up doing crazy shit like saying hello to trans people.

I think that Debbie Hayton has gone through a process of getting sucked into the gender woo (causing a decline in mental health), transitioning, becoming an advocate along the lines of most trans rights advocates and then waking up and realising that they'd been sold a pup and coming out the other side and advocating against the gender woo and associated policy changes. I think that their beliefs have changed a lot over time.

How has DH got sucked in? They have social climbed hopped to get to that adoring attention far from sucked in.

Declining mental health? If that your medical opinion or male entitle pass to excuse any wrong doings towards women, freedom to do anything including murder them.

Is that you DH

No, I'm definitely female. I think we all recognise that many children and young people have been sucked into a world where they have seen taking on a gender identity and altering their bodies as a way of dealing with discomfort or pain. This has happened to adults also. I have heard Debbie Hayton describe how this happened to them. Adults (and as a result those around them) are being harmed by these ideas also.

Didn’t mean u male, I meant in general the male entitled pass men use.

You infantile DH like some child who is delicate fragile flower

Too many red flags. Have good day

Hacsi Horvath long read article
Posted on December 19, 2018

'The Theatre of the Body: A detransitioned epidemiologist examines suicidality, affirmation, and transgender identity'
(extract)
"I am an adjunct Lecturer in the Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF). I’m an expert in clinical epidemiology, particularly in systematic review methods, epidemiologic bias and evidence quality assessment. As a researcher at UCSF, I managed the Cochrane HIV/AIDS Group for over a decade and on several occasions served as a consultant to the World Health Organization (WHO) in their HIV guideline development processes.

For about 13 years, I also masqueraded “as a woman,” taking medical measures which suggest, shall we say, that I was completely committed to that lifestyle. Most men would have recoiled from this, but in my estrogen-drug-soaked stupor it seemed like a good idea. In 2013 I stopped taking estrogen for health reasons and very rapidly came back to my senses. I ceased all effort to convey the impression that I was a woman and carried on with life."

4thwavenow.com/2018/12/19/the-theatre-of-the-body-a-detransitioned-epidemiologist-examines-suicidality-affirmation-and-transgender-identity/