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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I don’t think I’m transphobic but can you sense check me please

202 replies

Greenwateringcan · 15/07/2021 07:45

I’m a regular poster on mumsnet, I don’t post here usually. I’ve name changed because I don’t want this linked to my usual name. I am sure mumsnet will confirm if needed.

I’m in my 50s and female - born female. I don’t have an issue with trans people at all, I’m not really gender critical, but I do have some issues with how to manage protection of women’s spaces and sport for example.

I’m not a campaigner, not a protestor on trans issues, I generally try to just get on with my life.

I’m in a feminist group on Facebook. Or rather. I was. I’ve just been kicked out a few months ago for being transphobic and I really don’t think I am or was and I would really like a sense check please.

The group has young trans women in it who are very vocal and drive a lot of the discussion. One of the discussions was around dating and how or when to tell a potential partner they were trans.

To cut a long story short, the trans woman in question felt that anyone they dated should be open to having sex with them, regardless of their trans status. And that if someone didn’t want to have sex with them they were automatically transphobic.

I disagreed and said that my sex life was one area of my life where I was perfectly entitled to be discriminatory. I don’t have to have sex with anyone I don’t want to for any reason and that is my right.

I also said that they had to accept that by being trans, without any surgery, meant that they would find it more difficult to get a partner as people who were attracted to men might not like how they presented, and people who were attracted to women would have an issue with the fact that they still had their male genitalia and that as a straight woman I wouldn’t be attracted to them, as my sexual preference is for males who present as male.

They launched a slanging match at me, as did their friends, and told me I was transphobic for not wanting to have sex with them. I ended up being kicked out of the group because I wasn’t accepting of trans women as women.

I promise I’m not a troll I’ve worried about this a lot - am I transphobic? I try to be inclusive and understanding in my life of all kinds of difference and I don’t give a stuff how many one wants to present, I’ll use whatever pronoun people want, and I’ll happily share a bathroom space with them but I don’t see how I can be made to check my thinking and sleep with someone I don’t want to

I know I’m being discriminating in as much as I wouldn’t want to have sex with a trans woman, but that’s because I’m straight and their presentation doesn’t turn me on (sorry) but I could equally say that about someone with a big nose or bad breath or any number of other things that would make me not attracted to someone.

Can you tell me if you think I was or am wrong? I’m asking here because I know you all have a much better handle on the issues than me and better language to express the issues.

OP posts:
SquashMinusIsShit · 15/07/2021 07:48

I don't think you are, surely you are showing a preference?!

but I could equally say that about someone with a big nose or bad breath

Exactly! I'm generally not attracted to blondes but that doesn't mean I hate all blonde men

NautaOcts · 15/07/2021 07:50

I’m similar to you in the views you outlined.
I don’t think you are but I can see why it would be upsetting for trans women to hear that said. So I absolutely agree with you but can also see why they became upset.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/07/2021 07:50

You're not transphobic OP. Long ongoing current discussion with the arguments from both sides:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4294970-Question-re-relationships-with-trans-people

Feelingoktoday · 15/07/2021 07:51

Of course you are not being transphobic by choosing who you have sex with.

FlyPassed · 15/07/2021 07:52

Sexual orientation is not phobic. 'No' is a full sentence. Consent not given freely and happily is not consent. Anyone demanding sex from someone sounds to me like a rapey incel.

They are trying to gaslight you into dropping your boundaries. I think you're probably better off out of a group where the members exhibit such disturbing attitudes.

Original poster
Greenwateringcan · 15/07/2021 07:52

Thank you.

It can up in conversation yesterday with a friend who wondered why I wasn’t in the group any more - I honestly wouldn’t discriminate in my every day life but I feel entitled to discriminate when it comes to who i have sex with? Am I?

My head hurts trying to think about it all and I’ve worried and been up half the night but I just will never be attracted to someone who presents as female, because I’m straight. (No offence to lesbians or gay people at all)

OP posts:
Original poster
Greenwateringcan · 15/07/2021 07:53

Thank you for the link @Ereshkigalangcleg

OP posts:
NautaOcts · 15/07/2021 07:53

And actually, although I find some of the reports of how the things some TRA say and do, I don’t think I could rule out that I might be attracted to someone that was trans. But then although I’m straight, I also feel I could not 100% say I wouldn’t fall for a woman in future, so maybe that’s why.

Mollymalone123 · 15/07/2021 07:54

No you are it transphobic at all-and you sound exactly how I regard trans issues. I’m sorry but they sound ridiculous and it’s all to do with personal choice and nothing to do with being phobic about anything.

NautaOcts · 15/07/2021 07:54

*find reports abhorrent

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 15/07/2021 07:56

As they say, when someone shows you who they are, believe them. These particular people have shown you they are demanding, don’t respect others boundaries or feelings, don’t want to hear the word no...I would have left a group with them before they could throw me out.

As PP says, sounds like rapey incel talk.

Original poster
Greenwateringcan · 15/07/2021 07:57

See Blush I said that. I’m not so many words. I said that telling people they had to consider having sex with someone they didn’t want to was a slippery slope to rape apology and that’s what got me kicked out.

OP posts:
Original poster
Greenwateringcan · 15/07/2021 07:57

*in

OP posts:
KohlaParasanda · 15/07/2021 07:58

It doesn't sound as if you were the troll in this situation.

Lordamighty · 15/07/2021 07:59

Of course you are not transphobic. No one is entitled to demand sex from someone, no matter how you identify.
Lots of feminist/women’s groups have been targeted by trans rights activists. Your experience of this group has been repeated here many times.

FlyPassed · 15/07/2021 07:59

Sounds like they should be on a watch list!

midgemagneto · 15/07/2021 08:00

I'd have left out the words slippery slope and analogy myself

SupermanWithTheGreyHair · 15/07/2021 08:00

It shouldn’t be seen as transphobic but it will be by some. I think it’s ridiculous.
I couldn’t care less if they think I’m transphobic for not being attracted to them. And I’d go further and say I don’t wish to share a bathroom or have my language policed. I use sex based pronouns for everyone I meet. If they wish to use gender based ones, I’ll use their name instead.

Original poster
Greenwateringcan · 15/07/2021 08:00

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a Facebook group and really no loss in the grand scheme of things, but I worry where this type of idealism might end.

Aren’t people allowed to be straight or gay any more? Aren’t we allowed to have a preference and if not why not? And where does that end?

I’m sorry for the brain dump I really am but I’ve got so many questions and I don’t know how to square my right to a sexual preference with this ideology.

OP posts:
Abhannmor · 15/07/2021 08:01

Sorry about your experience. What is it about book clubs? I wasn't expelled from mine but I just don't go there now. Too much abuse on this subject. Even the Radio 4 listeners page has split over this issue. In short, no you are not transphobic . Flowers

Etorih · 15/07/2021 08:01

Sounds like you've been trolled op. Obviously it's not transphobic to have preferences. Although there's some trans people and their allies who will tell you it is. There's a reason for that. But that reason isn't your problem.

DaisyWaldron · 15/07/2021 08:02

Everyone's entitled to dealbreakers, and someone being trans is as valid a reason not to date them or have sex with them or feel attracted to them as having a big nose or bad breath would be.

So I guess the potential transphobia would be in whether you would treat a trans person in the same way you would would treat someone with a big nose or bad breath.

So if someone with a big nose was in the Facebook group complaining about how people didn't want to date them because of their nose, and wondering if it was ok to wear a facemask for the first few dates so that the person they liked got to know them before they knew about the nose, would you have given the same response?

And if someone with a big nose was complaining about how it was discrimination that people wouldn't date them because of their nose, would you have responded the same way?

TotorosCatBus · 15/07/2021 08:02

Yanbu

I don't know why the pansexual label gets forgotten in this argument.

Original poster
Greenwateringcan · 15/07/2021 08:04

I probably would’ve been blunter to be honest. If it was a person with a big nose. And that annoyed me too that I policed my language so carefully so as not to cause offence, when if it had been a bloke with a big nose who was asking if he had a right to sex with me regardless of the fact that he had a big nose and I didn’t find that a turn on, I’d have said look mate. Some people don’t want to have sex with you because of your big nose. Better to be open and honest about it up front and ditch them and move on if they’re not for you.

OP posts:
Soubriquet · 15/07/2021 08:05

This is one of the reasons people hate trans rights activists

They are incredibly entitled and believe they deserve more rights than the average human.

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