I don’t think I’m transphobic but can you sense check me please

[Greenwateringcan]

I’m a regular poster on mumsnet, I don’t post here usually. I’ve name changed because I don’t want this linked to my usual name. I am sure mumsnet will confirm if needed.

I’m in my 50s and female - born female. I don’t have an issue with trans people at all, I’m not really gender critical, but I do have some issues with how to manage protection of women’s spaces and sport for example.

I’m not a campaigner, not a protestor on trans issues, I generally try to just get on with my life.

I’m in a feminist group on Facebook. Or rather. I was. I’ve just been kicked out a few months ago for being transphobic and I really don’t think I am or was and I would really like a sense check please.

The group has young trans women in it who are very vocal and drive a lot of the discussion. One of the discussions was around dating and how or when to tell a potential partner they were trans.

To cut a long story short, the trans woman in question felt that anyone they dated should be open to having sex with them, regardless of their trans status. And that if someone didn’t want to have sex with them they were automatically transphobic.

I disagreed and said that my sex life was one area of my life where I was perfectly entitled to be discriminatory. I don’t have to have sex with anyone I don’t want to for any reason and that is my right.

I also said that they had to accept that by being trans, without any surgery, meant that they would find it more difficult to get a partner as people who were attracted to men might not like how they presented, and people who were attracted to women would have an issue with the fact that they still had their male genitalia and that as a straight woman I wouldn’t be attracted to them, as my sexual preference is for males who present as male.

They launched a slanging match at me, as did their friends, and told me I was transphobic for not wanting to have sex with them. I ended up being kicked out of the group because I wasn’t accepting of trans women as women.

I promise I’m not a troll I’ve worried about this a lot - am I transphobic? I try to be inclusive and understanding in my life of all kinds of difference and I don’t give a stuff how many one wants to present, I’ll use whatever pronoun people want, and I’ll happily share a bathroom space with them but I don’t see how I can be made to check my thinking and sleep with someone I don’t want to

I know I’m being discriminating in as much as I wouldn’t want to have sex with a trans woman, but that’s because I’m straight and their presentation doesn’t turn me on (sorry) but I could equally say that about someone with a big nose or bad breath or any number of other things that would make me not attracted to someone.

Can you tell me if you think I was or am wrong? I’m asking here because I know you all have a much better handle on the issues than me and better language to express the issues.

Fundamentally this is why the "super straight" identity went down like a lead ballon with trans activists.

If you're unaware it was a viral TikToc from an older teen, who was annoyed at being called transphobic because he said he wouldn't date a trans woman.

He said his identity was "super straight" meaning he only dated natal women and if you attack his sexual orientation and gender identity then you're a bigot.

Essentially a "right back at you".

Of course you're not transphobic. And it's not about preference - saying no to someone because you don't find them attractive.

It's about sexual orientation.

A protected characteristic under equality law.

A preference is about a type of person. An orientation is the sex of the person. You can legitimately discriminate against an entire sex, based on your sexual orientation.

Even though transgender ideology talks all the live long day about gender, they actually mean sex. Which is why they can make the nonsensical claim that one's sex is based on how one feels in one's head, and not one's actual sex.

It directly undermines every sexual orientation, homosexuality, lesbianism, heterosexuality, the lot.

It'a a problem when transwomen do it, because those who do are largely heterosexual, are attracted to the female sex, but need someone who is only attracted to women, in order to validate their gender identity.

It is, in my opinion, a male dominance display.

Who you have sex with is not up to you, it's up to someone who says they are more oppressed than you are. Them's the rules.

@Datun

Of course you're not transphobic. And it's not about preference - saying no to someone because you don't find them attractive.

It's about sexual orientation.

A protected characteristic under equality law.

A preference is about a type of person. An orientation is the sex of the person. You can legitimately discriminate against an entire sex, based on your sexual orientation.

Even though transgender ideology talks all the live long day about gender, they actually mean sex. Which is why they can make the nonsensical claim that one's sex is based on how one feels in one's head, and not one's actual sex.

It directly undermines every sexual orientation, homosexuality, lesbianism, heterosexuality, the lot.

It'a a problem when transwomen do it, because those who do are largely heterosexual, are attracted to the female sex, but need someone who is only attracted to women, in order to validate their gender identity.

It is, in my opinion, a male dominance display.

Exactly!!

Objectively you are not.

Under the lense of the trans lobby of course you are. TWAW so if you are attracted to women you must be attracted to TW. You also obviously are an exclusionary bigot. Of course there are some in the alphabet soup that disagree and think genital preferences are fine, but by now there are so many that do agree, that essentially the ones who disagree don't matter.

Essentially this is why accusations of transphobia are water off a ducks back for me now, and I never begin with any caveats assuring people I'm not transphobic.

Because according to these creeps, just by virtue of being a lesbian, and not willing to hide that, I am transphobic. I don't assure people I'm not demon possessed, which is what sone religious people thought about my homosexuality, so why would I assure beo-religious people that I'm not a geretic according to their faith? I am. I do not believe. Call me what you want. I don't care care about the opinions of sexist, racist homophobes. No one should.

Oh, the typos...

She wanted to know why they called her transphobic and kicked her out of the group. I suspect it is because they felt hurt. I suspect it was actually because they felt angry that she said no to them. If a transwoman is surrounded by women telling them that they’re stunning and brave and that of course some lesbians have penises, it’s not going to be well received when anyone questions that.

Sexual orientation is not a preference, nor a genital fetish, nor something that needs to be ‘got over’. Any suggestion that it is, is homophobic, rapey and akin to conversion therapy. OP, have a look at Magdalen Berns on You Tube responding to Riley J Dennis. There’s another video of a woman (whose name escapes me) responding to a video from Riley J Dennis’ partner.

Are you Transphobic?

No, of course not. Transphobia is real and exists in everyday life

If I cannot get a job because the employer doesn't accept Transsexual people (as a general class)... that is Transphobic

If I cannot rent a home purely because the Landlord does not accept my being Transsexual ... that is transphobic

If I cannot gain entry to a cinema/shop/restaurant etc because the owner does not like Transsexual people ... that is transphobic

(Think 'No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs)

If someone does not want to sleep with me/date me/ whatever then
Boo-Fucking-Hoo but its not transphobic

'ALL human beings have autonomy (or should have it) over their own lives. I fancy who I fancy ... you fancy who you fancy ... if 'They' don't fancy us then, again

Boo-Fucking-Hoo and move on

This should not be a point of contention ...

No, you are not transphobic (and I'm mildly surprised that you feel the need to ask)

Hang on... transwomen want to date straight women now? Straight women who usually date men? And it is "transphobic" for the straight women to refuse??

@WomaninBoots

Hang on... transwomen want to date straight women now? Straight women who usually date men? And it is "transphobic" for the straight women to refuse??

Yes. Anything less than total capitulation is transphobia.

it’s not going to be well received when anyone questions that.

Is it Children of Men that has the ghastly doll-child phenomenon with the social support that the women got for that?

But even under the TWAW directive it doesn't make sense that a straight woman not wanting to sleep with a transwoman is transphobic. By their original logic the straight woman wanting to sleep with them would be the transphobic thing as a straight woman wanting to sleep with them is the straight woman acknowledging then as a man.

Clearly, as Alfonso says, this is just "not giving me everything I want is transphobic" manifesting.

You’re not transphobic - and even if you are, why do you care? The definition is so elastic that if you don’t agree to play along with every part of their make-believe pantomime you’re transphobic. Just reject it.

A man is a man, no matter how he dresses. Calling you discriminatory for not wanting to have sex with certain people is sexual coercion.

Womaninboots I think it's just a manifestation of the 'must hypothetically agree to consider' to avoid the transphobia accusation.

What I got from the OP was that she was quite politely explaining why a woman solely sexually oriented to other women wouldn't want to be presented with a cock, and it was unacceptable to say anything other than that some lesbians might well love them some male genitals. To refuse to concede this is the transphobic act. I've faced it from homophobic charmers on here myself. Because in that mindset, it's more important that everyone is able to call themselves whatever they want than it is for the words to have any meaning.

They don't seem to see that this isn't personal autonomy, it's gaslighting and robbing people of the language they need to defend their rights. Saw a woman having a pop at a gay man on twitter, telling him it didn't affect him if Dylan the AFAB transman with the tufty beard, wide hips and mastectomy scars was called a gay man.
Except of course it meant she was also telling the actual gay man he was wrong to not want a female on T as a sexual partner. Nothing to see here. Just your common or garden sexual coercion and conversion therapy that lesbians and gays have endured since the year dot.

YANBU and this is why we need GC feminism

I feel entitled to discriminate when it comes to who i have sex with? Am I?

If a person says it's wrong to say no to sex that makes them a rape apologist.

This one has really confuddled me then.

I do know OP is not transphobic, that the word is almost meaningless and that using emotional manipulation to get sex is wrong and a very male pattern behaviour.

What I was saying was

1. I’m a straight woman. I like men that present as male therefore I will never want to date a trans woman.

1. Lesbians like women and generally they also don’t expect to find a dick on a partner therefore they aren’t likely to want to date a trans woman.

1. That’s a shame for the trans woman but they aren’t any more entitled to sex with anyone than anyone else

1. By being unusual in their presentation - presenting as female but having a dick - then as unpalatable as it was for them they were likely to have a narrow pool of people who would want to date them.

But because I wasn’t prepared to date a trans woman - having considered it, and knowing my own mind - I was transphobic.

And that was about the height of it. Still doesn’t make sense to me. But hey ho.

Phobic means afraid of. An absence if attraction is not fear, or hatred or anything other than an absence if attraction.

The idea that the default state is 'open to fucking anyone' and we then exclude people is such bullshit. The default state is not being attracted. Being attracted to someone is an exception, even if one is attracted to many people or sexes or genders or personalities or whatever.

Consent is not just an absence of 'no'; it's an informed and freely chosen 'yes' .

If = of

I have the same keyboard Arabella

You are not being transphobic. The fact that you even think you remotely could be is a measure at how successful TRAs, stonewall and similar organisations have been at grooming us.
You are a free person who has absolutes rights over your own body and mind, now and forever.
Stop even thinking about this. The people saying these things to you are completely crossing and disrespecting your boundaries ......words fail me!

Thanks all. I think, as someone said, I’ve been peaked / I’ve peaked.

Thank you so much to everyone who took the time to answer