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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Does anyone ever wonder how this will end?

609 replies

dyslek · 12/07/2021 21:22

I can see three scenarios.

  1. women lose and we end up living in some nightmarish high tec version of ancient Rome, where woman and children is a sub human resource to be exploited in anyway a man wants at an given moment.
  2. the mass hysteria quietly dies down and every kind of pretents this was never a thing (and in fact it was only those nasty feminists making a fuss that caused all this misunderstanding in the first place).
  3. due to the sheer insanity of gender idology, society slowly starts to listen to women and the horror of the unfairness wakes everyone up to womans humanity and gender stereotypes and finally totally abandoned and we all live happly ever after.
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Doyoumind · 12/07/2021 23:42

So what's your view on non binary or gender fluid identities Panda because what you stated doesn't really cover them. Should Pip Bunce be totally accepted as a woman on Wednesdays and a man on Thursdays, for instance?

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CuriousPanda · 12/07/2021 23:45

@dyslek
being locked in a prison cell with a rapist
Do you think there is no issue with a woman being put in the same prison cell as say, a female rapist? Or guarded by male guards, who rape female prisoners at far higher rates than trans inmates?

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Anotheruser02 · 12/07/2021 23:46

[quote CuriousPanda]@Itreallytiedtheroomtogether
And on your later point - why is any of this anti-trans? Where is your discussion on how this effects women and girls - we exist too and have equal rights to trans people.
How does recognizing trans women as women infringe on non-trans women's rights?[/quote]
Having the right to a same sex doctor for intimate examinations.
Having the right to a same sex domestic abuse practitioner when escaping a violent man.
Having the right to speak to a same sex police officer when reporting a sexual assault or rape.
Having the right to only be searched by a same sex officer if incarcerated.
Having the right to privacy and dignity from the opposite sex when vulnerable.

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dyslek · 12/07/2021 23:49

Women dont rape each other. Which is another example of now women lose out in this war against them. Propaganda is now being spread that women are sex offenders and that lesbians wank in changing rooms.

Only 1/2% of sex offenders are women and of those, the offensives were committed 'with' (read for) men. So no women do not rape each other. (for a start you need a cock)

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Waitwhat23 · 12/07/2021 23:50

Once those children pushed towards life altering medicalisation by medical professionals (often against the wishes of their parents who support their children but would prefer a 'watchful waiting' approach) grow up and start suing the arses off everyone for the ruining of their health and fertility.

Once the social contagion in Schools dies down (where it has been described as being 'social suicide' to not describe yourself as somewhere under the 'queer' umbrella) and young people move on to the next big thing.

Once research is undertaken to investigate why so many females on the ASD spectrum in particular want to transition.

Once the long term effects of women essentially removing themselves from public life are realised. The quote 'for teenage boys, their world grows larger whereas for teenage girls, their world grows smaller' will soon apply to females of all ages.

Once Universities realise that a lack of free speech and on their campuses will hinder any meaningful research.

And most importantly, when the general public realise what's going on (and it's coming - people are starting to realise what's happening about sports, sexual predators taking advantage of self ID, prisons etc) and they realise that this isn't all about 'be kind'.

Once all this happens, there will be a backpedaling like no other. 'Didn't happen, nothing to see here'.

And women and girls will have to fight to re-establish rights which they previously had and the LGB community will have to fight against prejudice re-established by the damage done by this vocal, harmful ideology.

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dyslek · 12/07/2021 23:51

That one type of man rapes women dose not make it ok for other types to victimise them too. This is hard for men to understand because they see women as property.

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Doyoumind · 12/07/2021 23:53

Only a penis can rape in UK law. Females commit sexual offences at a tiny proportion of the rate men do (even though sex crimes are now recorded by self identified gender, which distorts the figures).

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OldCrone · 12/07/2021 23:53

Do you think there is no issue with a woman being put in the same prison cell as say, a female rapist?

In British law, the offence of rape can only be committed by someone with a penis. There are no female rapists in UK prisons.

A woman can only be convicted of rape if she assists a rapist, for example by restraining the victim.

Or guarded by male guards, who rape female prisoners at far higher rates than trans inmates?

Do you have any links to statistics on that? I'd be interested in seeing them, especially following the recent judicial review where there appeared to be a high number of sexual assaults on female prisoners, but it wasn't clear whether they had been carried out by prisoners or guards.

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Doyoumind · 12/07/2021 23:55

Cross post with dyslek.

I must get to bed now though.

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Mibbiesaye · 12/07/2021 23:56

Are you seriously using the 'will be raped anyway' argument?

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/07/2021 23:58

No one is basing gender identity on sexual orientation, and most trans people identify as bi or gay, not straight. Meaning that most of the time, transition is "transing" the gay in.

No, just calling straight "gay" doesn't have that effect.

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Hdhdjejdj · 12/07/2021 23:58

Looking at twitter I can’t see a way forward. There will be no compromise. I think people are going to get hurt.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/07/2021 23:59

I wish some of you cheerleaders would do some reading, and some thinking.

Good luck with that!

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OldCrone · 13/07/2021 00:01

Gender identity is based on persistent, explicitly stated desire to be another gender.

What does it mean to 'be another gender' @CuriousPanda?

Do you mean they want to be the opposite sex? Or just to not conform to stereotypes for their sex? Or something else?

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Articus · 13/07/2021 00:01

I always wonder was the ultimate goal of trans ideology. I couldn’t see what was the gain in making perfectly healthy bodies go under dubious treatment to resemble the opposite sex without good statistics about results. At present I think is money driven. A whole new market, it’s like discovering a new continent, plenty of comercial promise from cloths, surgeries, books, events, products, products, products...

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Secondbellini · 13/07/2021 00:03

It isn’t just genderism though. There is also porn, surrogacy and violence against women.

It is just horrendous for young women.

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OvaHere · 13/07/2021 00:03

@OldCrone

Do you think there is no issue with a woman being put in the same prison cell as say, a female rapist?

In British law, the offence of rape can only be committed by someone with a penis. There are no female rapists in UK prisons.

A woman can only be convicted of rape if she assists a rapist, for example by restraining the victim.

Or guarded by male guards, who rape female prisoners at far higher rates than trans inmates?

Do you have any links to statistics on that? I'd be interested in seeing them, especially following the recent judicial review where there appeared to be a high number of sexual assaults on female prisoners, but it wasn't clear whether they had been carried out by prisoners or guards.

I don't think Panda has the first clue about the UK or UK law.
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dyslek · 13/07/2021 00:04

I agree, for capatilism it makes sense, not just in products but in virtue signalling with out having to actually change anything for the better.

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CuriousPanda · 13/07/2021 00:06

@OldCrone

Do you think there is no issue with a woman being put in the same prison cell as say, a female rapist?

In British law, the offence of rape can only be committed by someone with a penis. There are no female rapists in UK prisons.

A woman can only be convicted of rape if she assists a rapist, for example by restraining the victim.

Or guarded by male guards, who rape female prisoners at far higher rates than trans inmates?

Do you have any links to statistics on that? I'd be interested in seeing them, especially following the recent judicial review where there appeared to be a high number of sexual assaults on female prisoners, but it wasn't clear whether they had been carried out by prisoners or guards.

@OldCrone
In British law, the offence of rape can only be committed by someone with a penis. There are no female rapists in UK prisons.
So by this standard, a trans woman who underwent surgery is incapable of committing rape.
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CuriousPanda · 13/07/2021 00:08

@OldCrone

Gender identity is based on persistent, explicitly stated desire to be another gender.

What does it mean to 'be another gender' *@CuriousPanda*?

Do you mean they want to be the opposite sex? Or just to not conform to stereotypes for their sex? Or something else?

Gender identity, the labels of "man" and "woman", or gendered terms and pronouns like "he", "she", or "they".
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CuriousPanda · 13/07/2021 00:09

@Ereshkigalangcleg

No one is basing gender identity on sexual orientation, and most trans people identify as bi or gay, not straight. Meaning that most of the time, transition is "transing" the gay in.

No, just calling straight "gay" doesn't have that effect.

So in other words, "transing the gay away" is not a thing either.
You can't have it both ways.
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2021 00:11

That's a dishonest strawman that's been wholly refuted by trans people

Well, they disagree, anyway. Not sure that counts as "refuted".

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Blibbyblobby · 13/07/2021 00:11

[quote CuriousPanda]@Itreallytiedtheroomtogether
And on your later point - why is any of this anti-trans? Where is your discussion on how this effects women and girls - we exist too and have equal rights to trans people.
How does recognizing trans women as women infringe on non-trans women's rights?[/quote]
Females have rights/protections separate to males for these reasons:

Because males statistically pose a physical and/or sexual risk to females. Statistically means not all males, or even the majority of males, but enough that the prevalence of offending in the male population is significantly higher than the female.

Because the interaction between a society structured around families self-supporting through private earnings and the more demanding role of the female in reproduction and breast-feeding puts mothers at an economic disadvantage, and in a capitalist society that translates as a lack of power relative to males.

Because a history of gendered roles based on sex puts female people under social pressure to take on more of the unpaid domestic and caring labour than males, again putting female people at an economic and social disadvantage.

Because social norms that have evolved due to the above result in unconscious bias about the abilities and aptitudes of females vs males that create unfair disadvantages to female people in domestic, work, cultural, political and social arenas beyond the core causes above.

Historically these protections and rights were called "Women's rights" , but that's only because Woman and Female were synonymous. They were just as much Female rights.

Trans women undoubtedly also suffer challenges and disadvantages, but unless you can show that statistically trans womens behaviour and outcomes are the same as female people rather than male in the specific areas listed above, it disadvantages female people to take away their single-sex rights and protections and give them to male women who don't have the same disadvantages.

That absolutely does not mean that we should not do anything to help and support trans women with their own needs and challenges, it just means that redefining all the existing single-sex support wholesale to be mixed-sex without considering whether it actually meets its intended purpose any more is not the right way to do it, for female people or for trans women.

So even if society changes the definition of Women from a sex to a gender, including trans women and excluding trans men, it is not a de facto reason to include Trans Women in these pre-existing rights - rather, it's a reason to rename them as Female rights to better reflect their purpose given the redefinition of the name Woman, and separate to that, consider what rights and protections this new, gender-based group of Woman may need.

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OldCrone · 13/07/2021 00:12

So by this standard, a trans woman who underwent surgery is incapable of committing rape.

Well, yes, obviously. What point are you trying to make?

A male person who has had their penis removed is still capable of committing sexual assault and is still likely to be bigger and stronger than most women. And is still male. And could still be a rapist if they had raped someone before having their penis removed.

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CuriousPanda · 13/07/2021 00:15

@Ereshkigalangcleg

That's a dishonest strawman that's been wholly refuted by trans people

Well, they disagree, anyway. Not sure that counts as "refuted".

Well, it's a baseless lie you keep telling about what "trans activists" believe, so... What else is there to do to refute it, considering literally nothing backs it up?
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