Does anyone ever wonder how this will end?

[dyslek]

I can see three scenarios.

1. women lose and we end up living in some nightmarish high tec version of ancient Rome, where woman and children is a sub human resource to be exploited in anyway a man wants at an given moment.
2. the mass hysteria quietly dies down and every kind of pretents this was never a thing (and in fact it was only those nasty feminists making a fuss that caused all this misunderstanding in the first place).
3. due to the sheer insanity of gender idology, society slowly starts to listen to women and the horror of the unfairness wakes everyone up to womans humanity and gender stereotypes and finally totally abandoned and we all live happly ever after.

Again, witness the campaign against Rosie Duffield, for the crime of stating that women's health messages should reference women. Note that the ferocity of the TRA reaction was totally out of proportion to Duffield's actual comments: she said something very mild that the vast majority of the public would agree with, but the TRAs responded as if her views would horrify all decent and right-thinking people and demanded her expulsion from the Labour Party. This is key to their success: to treat even the mildest dissent from their agenda as the gravest of sins, which somehow erases the humanity of a vulnerable minority and literally causes their deaths. Most people don't have the desire or ability to endure such sustained opprobrium, so most people decide to stay well out of it. This is how 'the most intolerant wins', and how a minority of extremists end up imposing their wishes on the majority.

Yes, that's exactly what's happening. Great post.

@Wrongsideofhistorymyarse

It’s not all a lie though. Most of the mental health/ psychiatric/ scientific communities believe there is such a thing as gender identity. Gender identity being the sex you identify as. Just as we know we’re human and have a human identity, part of that identity is gendered.

Evidence please?

Royal College of Psychiatrists www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/PS02_18.pdf

NHS
www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

That is evidence of the wide acceptance of the concept. But what evidence do you want?

You’re never going to be able to cut people’s brains open and say ‘yes there is their gender identity and it’s male’. There’s no laboratory test. Same as for depression. How do you know if someone is depressed? You ask them questions and observe their behaviours, pre and post treatment. Same for lots of areas of psychiatry and mental health.

That's the thing about Psychiatry. It accepts that people hear voices and see giant rabbits who ask "Why are you wearing that stupid man-suit?" It acknowledges that anoexics and bulemics see themselves as they do, and that paranoids genuinely think the nurses are trying to kill them.

But in none of these conditions does it suggest these delusions have any objective reality outside the patient's imagination.

You know that ‘full surgery’ is a massive deal and very rare? If even 20% have had ‘surgery’ that actually generally means breast implants or reductions, nose jobs or face feminisation etc.

Evidence? I used 20% as it’s the figure most often quoted on this forum for the percentage of trans people that have genital surgery.

In this article an endocrinologist at Charing Cross puts it at 60% for genital surgery.
www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/10/transgender-clinic-waiting-times-patient-numbers-soar-gender-identity-services

What is your evidence for the numbers?

Are you happy for women’s sports, prisons, changing rooms, domestic violence units to be open to anyone?

No.

It is legal in the U.K. to exclude trans people from sport. Most trans women have not been moved to a female prison. The majority of DV units that I know of are self contained units with individual bathrooms etc - most are these days. Changing rooms could and should have individual cubicles. If someone is going or has been through a gender identity clinic/ treatment then they should be able to use the changing room for their transitioned sex. If it is an open changing room then I think a trans woman without genital surgery should not use that, (the majority of genuine TW wouldn’t want to as they are dysphoric) they should be given a separate private area.

@Jaysmith71

That's the thing about Psychiatry. It accepts that people hear voices and see giant rabbits who ask "Why are you wearing that stupid man-suit?" It acknowledges that anoexics and bulemics see themselves as they do, and that paranoids genuinely think the nurses are trying to kill them.

But in none of these conditions does it suggest these delusions have any objective reality outside the patient's imagination.

Gender identity disorder is not classed as a delusion. They have different aetiologies and it’s not useful to compare them in any way. Delusion is complete detachment from reality. Indulging delusions has very different outcomes from supportive gender transition.

Gender identity disorder is not classed as a delusion.

The trans lobby have certainly influenced the medical establishment through their lobby group WPATH, which claims to be a group of medical specialists, while actually being led some of the time by known transactivists, including non-medical lobbyists such as S Whittle.

This will be reversed, I believe, when the lawsuits start, but FieldOfGreyCorn is correct at the present moment. Indeed I think this is one of the biggest successes for transactivism, and is one of the aspects of their campaign that has given a level of apparent respectability that makes it so very difficult to refute.

I certainly did not question the treatment for a long time as the NHS appeared to embrace it. Some forward-thinking countries that had embraced it without question initially, have recently begun to backtrack regarding treatment for children, and I think the scandal will eventually escalate to a point that this particular physical treatment for what is likely a mental health disorder will be seen as equivalent to the lobotomy scandal, if not even bigger.

How will it end...4. a. Religion vs Queer Theorist flashpoint cases. Over 6 % of the population of England is Muslim. That rises to over 14 % in London. The percentage will increase fairly rapidly. The LBGT friendly Christian churches are in catastrophic decline with a surge in those who are not. b. NHS funding NICE - I understand that NHS will fund genital surgery and mastectomies but not facial feminisation or breast implants.So,there is a limit. At some point,due to the sheer volume of cases, the value of any gender reassignment treatment whatsoever will have to be properly assessed at the moment it's all in the experimental stage. With luck, complaints about waiting lists,will bear fruit. c - the increasing profile of dangerous criminal perverts claiming to be trans will percolate the public consciousness and politicians will be moved to take action. Given there are already 2 prisons in England devoted exclusively to sexual offenders with 20% of all male prisoners in for sexual offences without the sort of public scandal this scale of offending merits ,I fear this last possibility is wishful thinking.

@AnyOldPrion I think most adults have been completely blindsided by the online world. They have put the most extraordinary, unfettered communication tool humankind has ever known in the hands of children as young as 4, and have very little idea of the sort of rabbit holes young people are going down (just look at the reaction to the horrific events this week, media organisations having to explain the concept of 'incel' to listeners). Adult decision makers need to wake up more to the impact of this, and of the way things like porn and fan sites and the threats directed at women online are shaping the way teenagers are coming to think about themselves.

FieldofgreyCorn A couple of points.

1. About TG people and %age who have "the operation" or some part of that process vs those who don't.

fairplayforwomen.com/penis/

Thus Planned Parenthood have only two ideas about what "coming out as TG" might mean: telling people your new name, and telling them which pronouns you would like to use. That's it.

www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/transgender/coming-out-trans

1. It is no use having single cubicles off a shared area. There must be two single-sex areas, plus, if they want and campaign for it, a third area for TG people. Here's why:

www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/10/06/u-of-t-bathrooms-voyeurism_n_8253970.html

www.northdevongazette.co.uk/news/peeping-tom-left-girl-swimmer-scared-changing-room-7988374

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/man-arrested-after-women-sexually-810514

Having single-sex changing facilities and restrooms won't protect people from all perverts, of course:

www.womenarehuman.com/male-transgender-person-accused-of-sexually-assaulting-teen-in-walmart-restroom-alicia-gray-nee-sean-ojeda/

But it sure as hell helps. Yes, perverts will perve. But that doesn't mean we should just give up and pull down all the barriers.