Does anyone ever wonder how this will end?

[dyslek]

I can see three scenarios.

1. women lose and we end up living in some nightmarish high tec version of ancient Rome, where woman and children is a sub human resource to be exploited in anyway a man wants at an given moment.
   
2. the mass hysteria quietly dies down and every kind of pretents this was never a thing (and in fact it was only those nasty feminists making a fuss that caused all this misunderstanding in the first place).
   
3. due to the sheer insanity of gender idology, society slowly starts to listen to women and the horror of the unfairness wakes everyone up to womans humanity and gender stereotypes and finally totally abandoned and we all live happly ever after.

[OldCrone]

Gender identity, the labels of "man" and "woman", or gendered terms and pronouns like "he", "she", or "they".

That doesn't answer my question.

Man = adult male human
Woman = adult female human

He = pronoun used for person (or animal) of the male sex
She = pronoun used for person (or animal) of the female sex

What does it mean to 'be another gender'?

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

So by this standard, a trans woman who underwent surgery is incapable of committing rape.

Well yes, in the tiny percentage of MTF trans people that applies to. They can still sexually assault, obviously.

[GrimDamnFanjo]

@Hdhdjejdj

Looking at twitter I can’t see a way forward. There will be no compromise. I think people are going to get hurt.

I tend to agree.
I find small pockets of hope when women group together and discuss amongst themselves.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

So in other words, "transing the gay away" is not a thing either.
You can't have it both ways.

Don't be silly. The way it was meant by pp, neither of our posts have any bearing on because it is about genuine sexual orientation more than identity. You do realise that sexual orientation isn't just an identity?

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Well, it's a baseless lie you keep telling about what "trans activists" believe, so... What else is there to do to refute it, considering literally nothing backs it up?

You haven't refuted it, and there is evidence to back it up. Some TRAs are spectacularly homophobic.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

That doesn't answer my question.

Man = adult male human
Woman = adult female human

He = pronoun used for person (or animal) of the male sex
She = pronoun used for person (or animal) of the female sex

What does it mean to 'be another gender'?

Quite. It's meaningless in-group lingo.

[CuriousPanda]

@OldCrone

Gender identity, the labels of "man" and "woman", or gendered terms and pronouns like "he", "she", or "they".

That doesn't answer my question.

Man = adult male human
Woman = adult female human

He = pronoun used for person (or animal) of the male sex
She = pronoun used for person (or animal) of the female sex

What does it mean to 'be another gender'?

Nope, all of those are gender, i.e. socially constructed labels built around sex that are not inherently part of sex.

Nothing about anyone's physiology requires referring to them as a "man" or "woman" that is all simply decided by society.

[OldCrone]

Nothing about anyone's physiology requires referring to them as a "man" or "woman" that is all simply decided by society.

You don't seem to understand. Those are definitions. The definition of 'man' is 'adult male human'. The definition of woman is 'adult female human'.

You seem to be arguing for words to mean whatever you want them to mean. But that doesn't aid communication. We have to have definitions in order to communicate.

[Blibbyblobby]

Nope, all of those are gender, i.e. socially constructed labels built around sex that are not inherently part of sex.

What in your view is inherently part of sex, if anything?

Do you accept that if a group of people have been given a "socially constructed label built around sex" and oppressed for generations under that label, those people experienced real oppression even if the original basis for the oppression was a flawed social construction, and being the subject of shared oppression is in itself a meaningful basis to self-define, organise and self-support as a group?

[CuriousPanda]

@OldCrone

Nothing about anyone's physiology requires referring to them as a "man" or "woman" that is all simply decided by society.

You don't seem to understand. Those are definitions. The definition of 'man' is 'adult male human'. The definition of woman is 'adult female human'.

You seem to be arguing for words to mean whatever you want them to mean. But that doesn't aid communication. We have to have definitions in order to communicate.

Since we're using definitions... by definition, trans women are women,

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trans%20woman
a transgender woman : a woman who was identified as male at birth

Trans women are adult human females.

[CuriousPanda]

@Blibbyblobby

Nope, all of those are gender, i.e. socially constructed labels built around sex that are not inherently part of sex.

What in your view is inherently part of sex, if anything?

Do you accept that if a group of people have been given a "socially constructed label built around sex" and oppressed for generations under that label, those people experienced real oppression even if the original basis for the oppression was a flawed social construction, and being the subject of shared oppression is in itself a meaningful basis to self-define, organise and self-support as a group?

Trans women face much of the same forms of oppression directed at women. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

[CuriousPanda]

@Aparallaxia
Men have a Y chromosome. Women do not. [Let us not invoke intersex people here; they are fed up with being dragged into someone else's problem.]
How convenient. You seem to think preemptively claiming it's "offensive" to point out the glaring flaw in your definition somehow changes the fact that there's a glaring flaw in your definition.

[ALittleBitofVitriol]

Simple, can a trans woman simply live her life as a woman without facing harassment and abuse, being villified as "fetishistic perverted degenerate" and without her existence becoming the subject of a moral panic?

Lol, welcome to womanhood. Harassment and abuse? Check. Vilified? Check. Fetishized by perverts? Check. Existence subject of moral panic? Check.

I know the Fetishized part is a little different to what you wrote. Blame it on the sex based differences in paraphilias 🤷‍♀️

If males of any gender could stop the above, that would be a great start, no?

[Blibbyblobby]

Trans women face much of the same forms of oppression directed at women. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

Nope. You must have missed my earlier post where I explicitly acknowledged that trans women also face challenges.

Trans women suffer some of the same forms of oppression as female people.

However they do not, by definition, suffer any form of oppression that is due to the physical capabilities of the female body, the interaction between the female reproductive role and the structures of our society, or the social pressures and gender stereotypes applied to the female body.

You just refuse to acknowledge it.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

You seem to think preemptively claiming it's "offensive" to point out the glaring flaw in your definition somehow changes the fact that there's a glaring flaw in your definition.

Do you think people with DSDs aren't either male or female?

[Blibbyblobby]

Trans women face much of the same forms of oppression directed at women. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

Oh, and that doesn't answer the question:

Do you accept that if a group of people have been given a "socially constructed label built around sex" and oppressed for generations under that label, being the subject of shared oppression is in itself a meaningful basis to self-define, organise and self-support as a group?

[OldCrone]

a transgender woman : a woman who was identified as male at birth

There's something wrong with your dictionary. Definitions shouldn't contain obvious contradictions.

The same dictionary defines 'woman' as 'an adult female person'.

So it says that a transgender woman is an adult female person who was identified as male at birth.

Since people can't change sex, this definition is incorrect.

[Waitwhat23]

Oppression based on workplace discrimination due to pregnancy, childbearing, breast feeding and limitation of career prospects due to being of child bearing age.

Oppression due to limitations being placed on bodily autonomy (abortion laws, vaginal examinations by medical students when women are unconscious etc).

Oppression due to women's health not being taken seriously. It can take up to 20 years for endometriosis to be diagnosed as heavy periods/pain are just 'to be expected'. Birth injuries are minimised.

Transwomen will not experience these oppressions because they are predicated on a person's sex I.e. those who are adult human females.

[Sonarl]

@Marmaladee

4 please. End all this transphobia. Luckily it's mostly old people who read the daily Mail and like Piers Morgan so they'll die out

I know you'd like this to be true,
but it really isn't. I know a lot of very young girls, many who are lesbians, in their late teens and early twenties who are vehemently against being told they should want to have sex with transwomen and they probably wouldn't know who Piers Morgan was. Same as the right wing/nazi/mary Whitehouse/prude tropes, it's bollocks and just doesn't stick.

[StrangeLookingParasite]

How does recognizing trans women as women infringe on non-trans women's rights?

My god I find this level of wilful ignorance offensive.

[CuriousPanda]

@Ereshkigalangcleg

You seem to think preemptively claiming it's "offensive" to point out the glaring flaw in your definition somehow changes the fact that there's a glaring flaw in your definition.

Do you think people with DSDs aren't either male or female?

Some of them aren't, no.

[Quaggars]

@BlueberryCheezecake

4) Trans acceptance becomes the norm without any catastrophic consequences and the people who opposed it will be looked back on with the same distaste as those who opposed gay marriage equality and supported Section 28.

This one!

[Delphinium20]

Trans women suffer some of the same forms of oppression as female people

What is an example of the same oppression transwomen and women share that is not shared with men?

[AnyOldPrion]

I think the juggernaut will continue to wipe out women’s rights for some years to come.

Eventually, the weight of medical evidence will be assessed following the lawsuits of thousands of detransitioners, who are physically damaged (unlike anyone who claims to be ex-gay - though the link provided suggests those are religious nutters and nothing like the rational young women in the Trans-Train TV program and other places)

Proper examination of the evidence will reveal the fact that physically modifying the body in an attempt to alleviate mental distress is both ineffective as a long-term treatment and the newly sprung branch of medicine, that has grown up so fast, will wither away again as the scandal hits home.

“Being trans” as a thing (as opposed to a mental health problem related to distress at one’s sexed body) will stop being popular amongst children and teens. Something else (hopefully less damaging) will take its place.

And then we will be left in a world where rapidly passed laws, with huge loopholes used by men to abuse women, will have to be protested and repealed.

Honestly not sure how western civilization will look afterwards. Who knows what laws might replace those ushered in by transactivist lobbying. This feels like a very unstable period in time, and though I don’t believe the trans agenda will prevail, there’s no telling what will replace it if another group seizes upon the unrest this has created, possibly using the same tactics that have allowed this regime to progress as far as it has.

I have children and can only hope for the best. They all view transactivism as illogical and anti-woman, so I know that not all of the younger generation are captured.