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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Question re relationships with trans people

542 replies

2021ismyyear · 12/07/2021 19:04

Twitter is full of people that are prepared to defend trans rights at any cost. I’ve seen some hideous things written about people that believe otherwise. The insults against jk Rowling were hard to read. We saw it the other day when maya won her appeal case. People over ran social media with insults against “TERFS” etc.

I assume these people would have zero issue dating a trans person in that case? If trans women are women and sex doesn’t matter and it’s widely accepted that you can switch gender, then will those people start dating trans people? Will we see more women dating trans men for example? Will tinder do away with any search filters?

If not… why?

OP posts:
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8
BlueberryCheezecake · 12/07/2021 20:28

[quote dyslek]@BlueberryCheezecake
Oh no you seem to have missed my post that explains what the OP is saying, here it is again Smile

The OPs point is that many, possibly most, of the people testicularly screaming at women for not agreeing that twaw dont actually believe it themselfs.
Its a mantra that the movement demands be repeted (but not actually believed).
Another example thats even funnier of the non belief of the true believers is the irony that if tw were actually w, no one would really give a shit about them.

Your welcome.[/quote]
This really doesn't clear things up. Nor does it make sense. What on earth do you think would motivate someone to stand up for trans equality on twitter if they didn't actually believe it? There's no movement that has the power to compel this, that's pure conspiracy theory. And it just seems a convenient way to dismiss a group of people you don't agree with, to just pretend they can't possibly believe what they say, even though there's no reason on earth they'd have to say it if they didn't believe it.

WallaceinAnderland · 12/07/2021 20:28

@Imasoulman

If they are fully transitioned why would it be an issue, love shouldn't be that shallow.
You mean if they have had genital surgery?

What if they haven't.

What if it's a male body with penis and balls who identifies as a woman and wants to date men?

What OP is saying is that many of those men hurling rape and death threats at women like J K Rowling in the name of trans allies, would not actually have a sexual relationship with a woman with a penis because they don't think that's what a woman's body is.

Just like a gay man would not have sex with a transman with a vagina. Yet feels it's ok to abuse women who have the temerity to say there is a difference between the biological male body and the biological female body.

It's hypocritcial. That's the point of the thread.

NiceGerbil · 12/07/2021 20:31

' fully transitioned they will have breasts and vagina so surely it makes sense for these people to go to a women’s refuge?'

Your view here is out of step with mainstream and accepted approach.

Gender presentation is irrelevant.
Gender ID is what matters.
To suggest someone who identifies as a woman should change how they look or dress is terrible as how women look should not be policed.

Something to think about there.

And from my perspective.
Breasts and vaginas are complex organs. You can have implants/ surgical alternation but the end result on a male is not the same as the organs that female humans have.
This idea is dangerous for trans people as it promises something that can't be delivered, and also reduces complex female organs to what they look like and ignores their functions.

dyslek · 12/07/2021 20:31

'Trans equality'? what does that mean?

Which rights do trans people not have in your opinion?

BlueberryCheezecake · 12/07/2021 20:35

But there's no evidence of this supposed hypocrisy. Nor is there a convincing argument that it even is hypocritical, because, once again, you can support the rights of a minority without wanting to fuck all or any of them. It's honestly creepy this weird insistence that you can't support trans people unless you'd fuck one.

And the fact is, plenty of people do date trans people, or would if they met one they clicked with. Why you'd assume none of those people are also some of the same people who spend time on twitter talking about trans rights is bizarre. This entire thread is just a made up scenario that seems to be supposed to be some kind of gotcha.

NiceGerbil · 12/07/2021 20:35

'What on earth do you think would motivate someone to stand up for trans equality on twitter if they didn't actually believe it? '

As PP asked, what things are being stood up for?

As to why people (esp blokes) would do that if they didn't believe it... You must be able to think of some reasons!

334bu · 12/07/2021 20:35

Given the amount of transphobic abuse many so called trans allies have directed towards transwomen in the past, I find it unlikely that they believe transwomen are women. However, maybe they have all had a road to Damascus moment and are all now true believers, rather than jumping on the latest virtue signalling band wagon

Clymene · 12/07/2021 20:35

What rights do trans people not have in the U.K. @BlueberryCheezecake?

NiceGerbil · 12/07/2021 20:36

No evidence? At all? Anywhere? Ever?

BlueberryCheezecake · 12/07/2021 20:39

@NiceGerbil

No evidence? At all? Anywhere? Ever?
I mean, if you have a way to prove OP's assertion, that out of the 1000s of people she's talking about it, most of them haven't or wouldn't ever date a trans person, by all means go ahead (and no one single example doesn't prove a majority)
Doyoumind · 12/07/2021 20:40

There is much, much proof, that misogynistic men use the 'debate' as an excuse to be abusive to women. Follow some of the GC accounts on twitter. There's a huge amount of evidence. Also plenty of men spouting TWAW who have a posting history which reveals their lack of respect for the LGBT community.

dyslek · 12/07/2021 20:40

Oh no @BlueberryCheezecake, you missed my next post, I know that can happen when you get involved in a thread.
I'll post my question again Smile

What is 'trans equality'? What rights do trans people not have?

Doyoumind · 12/07/2021 20:42

It's an extremely easy way to virtue signal at absolutely no personal cost.

BlueberryCheezecake · 12/07/2021 20:42

@NiceGerbil

'What on earth do you think would motivate someone to stand up for trans equality on twitter if they didn't actually believe it? '

As PP asked, what things are being stood up for?

As to why people (esp blokes) would do that if they didn't believe it... You must be able to think of some reasons!

Go on, share some reasons? Can't be to get laid, since apparently they don't even want to get laid with the group in question.
334bu · 12/07/2021 20:45

What are you on about “male transwoman”?
Simply describing the sex class of this group. Transwomen are male human beings.

Regularsizedrudy · 12/07/2021 20:46

I don’t have Twitter so maybe I have not seen the extremes on there, I am certainly not sending death threats to jkr.
I’m sure there are “trans allies” who are disingenuous and just want to seem “right on” or whatever. But I also think they’re are a lot of people like me who think trans people face a lot of discrimination.

NiceGerbil · 12/07/2021 20:47

Come on. Have a little think.

Rack your memory for things you know about heterosexual men and lesbians and how a fair minority of the former think of the latter when it comes to sex...

Regularsizedrudy · 12/07/2021 20:47

@334bu

*What are you on about “male transwoman”?* Simply describing the sex class of this group. Transwomen are male human beings.
Surely the “trans” part of “trans woman” illustrates that. It would seem to me that you just want to stick the boot in by adding “male” in there.
NiceGerbil · 12/07/2021 20:48

Oh so not no evidence.

There is evidence but... That almost certainly needs to be ignored.

NiceGerbil · 12/07/2021 20:48

Given TWAW the trans part is irrelevant.

Just call them women, surely.

NiceGerbil · 12/07/2021 20:49

That's what all the police forces do.

If it's good enough for them..?

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 12/07/2021 20:50

@NiceGerbil

I think some posters are missing a lot of context here and agree without that, OPs post seems very peculiar.
Yes maybe its that

I understand the OP but obviously ive followed a lot of the links and information on here for some time now

Regularsizedrudy · 12/07/2021 20:51

@NiceGerbil

Given TWAW the trans part is irrelevant.

Just call them women, surely.

Never once in this thread have I said twaw though?
NiceGerbil · 12/07/2021 20:52

@Regularsizedrudy

I don’t have Twitter so maybe I have not seen the extremes on there, I am certainly not sending death threats to jkr. I’m sure there are “trans allies” who are disingenuous and just want to seem “right on” or whatever. But I also think they’re are a lot of people like me who think trans people face a lot of discrimination.
Ah you see it's not about you. It's about things more widely.

If you've never seen this sort of thing then I can understand your reaction.

It is hard to believe that homosexual women get called all sorts of names because they are same sex attracted.

Homophobia is rife and I wish orgs like stonewall would take action.

dyslek · 12/07/2021 20:53

Oh no, my posts are getting lost in all the activity.

I do hate to be pushy (I think its my socialisation) but I know no one would want to give the impression that questions that are at the very hart of the issue are being ignored by some, as thats obviously incorrect and totally not the case, so, again;

What is 'trans equality'? What rights do trans people not have?

What is