Milli Hill: I will not be silenced

[TheFleegleHasLanded]

I love Milli Hill’s work and know many other women on here do too. Check out her latest blog:

“But too many women have been silenced, and I don’t want to join them. There are conversations about women’s rights, women’s bodies, and the words we use to talk about women’s issues, which need to be had, but which have been made taboo in our current culture. And this is not healthy. Worse still, women like me have been used as an example to others of what happens to you if you raise questions. And others have seen these public draggings, and decided to keep quiet themselves. This kind of behaviour, in which dissidents are made a public example of in order to ensure compliance to dogma, does not have very good historical precedents. And yet it currently describes itself as ‘the right side of history’.”

www.millihill.co.uk/2021/07/10/i-will-not-be-silenced/

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Suggesting" something which literally no-one has said isn't a great indicator that you're here in good faith.

It's pretty much what Birthrights implied, that not believing in gender identity ideology means you dismiss that trans people suffer obstetric violence or need help, when what is actually the case is that you recognise that this is exclusively a female issue.

Not true. Women can be used alongside non-binary, trans man, birthing partner etc. Whatever extra language that some people require can be added to a sentence that includes women as opposed to scrubbing the word woman and adding lots of new words that are meant to apply to females but don’t.

I love how wanting to use accurate language about obstetrics is just semantics and hurts traumatized unspecific people, but telling lies to females about their bodies to the extent that if they're pregnant they don't think a birthing rights charity is relevant to them is tres inclusive.

Please.

So you're against anyone arguing about semantics and what language might mean, if there's a chance that the other party might be traumatised?

The people that birthrights helps are already traumatized. By birth. So yeah, you can pretty safely assume that the other side will be traumatized.

Birthrights with all the vital work they need to do shouldn't really be self-indulgently whipping up further Twitter shit because they got called out on poor behaviour.

love how wanting to use accurate language about obstetrics is just semantics and hurts traumatized unspecific people, but telling lies to females about their bodies to the extent that if they're pregnant they don't think a birthing rights charity is relevant to them is tres inclusive

And that's why Birth rights says "women and Birthing people". Get it now?

Not true. Women can be used alongside non-binary, trans man, birthing partner etc. Whatever extra language that some people require can be added to a sentence that includes women as opposed to scrubbing the word woman and adding lots of new words that are meant to apply to females but don’t.

And that's exactly what birthrights does.

Birthrights didn't pile on to anyone. They released a statement

They made a possibly defamatory smear against her in that statement by saying that she disputed obstetric violence could happen to trans people. She did not.

From Birthrights' statement:

"As reported, in November Milli posted comments on social media disputing that obstetric violence could happen to trans or non-binary people."

www.birthrights.org.uk/2021/07/12/birthrights-response-to-article-published-in-the-sunday-times/

@Needapoodle

So you're against anyone arguing about semantics and what language might mean, if there's a chance that the other party might be traumatised?

The people that birthrights helps are already traumatized. By birth. So yeah, you can pretty safely assume that the other side will be traumatized.

I didn't ask whether they were traumatised or not. I asked whether you'd hold that view in all cases. I note you didn't respond to that.

the work that birthrights does is more important than milli's feelings

So all people are equal, but some people's feelings are more important than other people's feelings?
Now I'm sure I've heard similar to that before.

I got it to begin with. I'm actually one of the few women here who still half accepts that there's a place for 'women and...' constructions in certain settings. That's got fuck all to do with the dogs abuse a woman with a very respectable pedigree in the area has received for mildly questioning a shift in emphasis that could harm women.

The lives of traumatized people are not a battleground to argue about semantics around gender.

Agreed, floral.

I'm actually one of the few women here who still half accepts that there's a place for 'women and...' constructions in certain settings.

Yes, and I completely respect why you do, but this inch/mile shit is a large part of the reason I don't.

The lives of traumatized people are not a battleground to argue about semantics around gender.

Tell that to trans activists.

I'm telling you.

And some things are more important than hurt feelings, no? Like women's right to organise as a political sex class.

Yes, and I completely respect why you do, but this inch/mile shit is a large part of the reason I don't.

FWIW, Eresh, I respect that perspective and I think it's probably an important part of pulling the Overton window back from the brink of madness.

But don't let anyone know we're not on exactly the same page. Completely ruins the echo chamber cred.

That's got fuck all to do with the dogs abuse a woman with a very respectable pedigree in the area has received for mildly questioning a shift in emphasis that could harm women.

But yes, quite. And the dismissive attitude to it, while pearl clutching about people tweeting at Birthrights.

Approximately 650,000 births a year in England and Wales. A handful ever to the those who identify as trans or non-binary. No official data yet on exactly how many. Nor any on the impact of these linguistic changes which are being brought in unexamined.

This is not about best practice in relation to individuals which has always been managed on the basis of individual need whilst keeping general communications in maternity services as a whole relevant to the majority.

This is an ideological battle between those who support a continuation of a sex based society and those who seek a gender based society. The two cannot coexist. “Women and birthing people” is the language of gender identity and queer theory being imposed on all of us, even the heretics, even the majority who may be unaware of what is going on.

Another data gap. How many women find the language of gender identity dehumanising, confusing or even frightening if they are supportive of the traditional sex based understanding of the world? How many of us know that we will not be welcomed anywhere that uses the language of gender identity because of our heresy? How many are excluded by so called inclusive language due to not understanding it or the other reasons I have given? Why do that potentially much larger group matter so much less than adherents of gender identity? The reason can only be ideology.

I'm not pearl clutching. I'm not sure why you think i am. Or why you have to resort to insults because I'm not bothered by your usual soundbites.

This is an ideological battle between those who support a continuation of a sex based society and those who seek a gender based society. The two cannot coexist. “Women and birthing people” is the language of gender identity and queer theory being imposed on all of us, even the heretics, even the majority who may be unaware of what is going on..

My question is, is a charity that's dedicated to helping traumatized women and upholding the rights of women before, during and after childbirth the right place to have this fight? When they use language that is inclusive to both women, and trans/non binary people?

I notice you haven't addressed Birthrights' lie that Milli disputed obstetric violence could happen to trans people, needapoodle.

Any minute now I'm sure.

Correction the reason for prioritising gender identity over clear and accurate sex based language is ideology and/or misogyny.

My question is, is a charity that's dedicated to helping traumatized women and upholding the rights of women before, during and after childbirth the right place to have this fight?

They joined in a nasty, misogynistic pile on. They're not above censure.