Milli Hill: I will not be silenced

[TheFleegleHasLanded]

I love Milli Hill’s work and know many other women on here do too. Check out her latest blog:

“But too many women have been silenced, and I don’t want to join them. There are conversations about women’s rights, women’s bodies, and the words we use to talk about women’s issues, which need to be had, but which have been made taboo in our current culture. And this is not healthy. Worse still, women like me have been used as an example to others of what happens to you if you raise questions. And others have seen these public draggings, and decided to keep quiet themselves. This kind of behaviour, in which dissidents are made a public example of in order to ensure compliance to dogma, does not have very good historical precedents. And yet it currently describes itself as ‘the right side of history’.”

www.millihill.co.uk/2021/07/10/i-will-not-be-silenced/

*The reason can only be ideology.

Just throwing it out there, could also be empathy towards the people that use their service and who could benefit from non gendered language being used. Even if it is just a handful. It hurts nobody to use the phrase birthing people where women is also used. The point certainly from erish and others seems to be, i don't believe these people are not women regardless of what they think, and they should just stop being silly and recognise that's what they are.

Aside from their statement, which could in no way be described as a pile on, show me where they piled on.

The point certainly from erish and others seems to be, i don't believe these people are not women regardless of what they think, and they should just stop being silly and recognise that's what they are.

They are, regardless of what they, I or anyone else thinks, because they are adult females and that's what the word means. Don't try to put other words in my mouth, like Birthrights did with Milli.

“My question is, is a charity that's dedicated to helping traumatized women and upholding the rights of women before, during and after childbirth the right place to have this fight? When they use language that is inclusive to both women, and trans/non binary people?”

Proponents of gender identity/queer theory and misogynists are determined to fight us women everywhere that we have (had) any power be that Birthrights, Sands, LLL, every other birth related organisation, maternity services, Girlguiding, the Women’s Institute, women’s sports, refuges and prisons.

Women did not choose this battle, it has been forced on us.

Read Milli's blog. It's helpfully linked in the OP. They joined in the pile on. I didn't say they started it, they just jumped on the bandwagon.

Ideological capture by TRAs is a big problem in the third sector. As one of the "indoctrinated" you would know this, poodle.

The more you attack a charity for using words you don't like, such as adding birthing people as well as the word women the more resources you take away from helping women. So you're harming women overall. If you think that's a victory for you then i think you've totally lost the plot and aren't as interested in protecting women as you are ensuring that trans and non binary people aren't included. Good one.

Milli's description of what led to the pile on online:

My work and thinking around obstetric violence had led me to the view that it is ‘sex based violence’. Please note my use of the word sex here, not gender. Sex as in biological sex, not gender as in the social constructs around roles, clothing, behaviour etc. Like other forms of violence against women, obstetric violence happens to women because they are female. What I saw happening in this slide was a genuine mix up between the absolutely correct idea that the problem here is patriarchy, a system that oppresses and damages women on the basis of their sex, and obfuscating terminology that is unable to name the oppressed people. So I felt compelled to speak.

As I had been tagged in a comment, I responded to that comment and wrote:
“Thanks. Good to see this post. I would challenge the term ‘birthing person’ in this context though, especially on international day to end violence against women. It is women who are seen as the ‘fragile sex’ etc, and obstetric violence is violence against women. Let’s not forget who the oppressed are here, and why.”

The original poster replied, “Obstetric violence is violence against anyone on the receiving end of obstetric violence – women, trans men, non-binary people, anyone.”

And I then said, “Personally I think it’s part of violence against women but if you disagree then at least don’t leave them out and say ‘women and birthing people’.

Remember, this was a reply to a comment on an Instagram post on an account with a relatively low number of followers. I didn’t expect anyone to see it apart from the person whose post it was, I just felt moved to say what I thought. But then, all hell broke loose.

A doula (professional pregnancy and labour supporter) posted screenshots of my comment in her stories. I’m going to share with you just a few of the social media posts, and the subsequent things that were said about me by others on Instagram and facebook. The posts and comments are from a variety of people, and I have concealed their identity because I don’t want to incite a pile-on onto them, having experienced how horrendous it is myself.

If it were about empathy there would be less bullying and nastiness involved.

Where is the empathy for those who are concerned about the implications of gender identity?

Why empathy only for this tiny group of “birthing people”?

I do believe that it is harmful to women and to society in general.

The more you attack a charity for using words you don't like, such as adding birthing people as well as the word women

Straw man, that isn't what's being criticised.

I must have missed the bit in the thread where feminists are claiming any of this as victory. It's all a fucking disgrace.

If it were about empathy there would be less bullying and nastiness involved.

Quite. It seems that Milli bent over backwards to raise her concerns in a sensitive way. The nasty personal attacks came from the "empathy" posse.

As ever.

Why empathy only for this tiny group of “birthing people”?

Because, again, because you missed it, this tiny group of people are looking at birthrights because they are traumatized . If you can't see why traumatized people should be given empathy then you've really got a problem.

Based on birth notification data, there were 151,104 live births that occurred in Quarter 4 (Oct to Dec) of 2020 in England and Wales which brings the total number of live births in 2020 to 615,557

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/articles/provisionalbirthsinenglandandwales/2020andquarter1jantomar2021#number-of-live-births-and-fertility-rates

So well over half a million births.

Care to hazard a guess as to how many UK transmen/ female non binary people you think we are talking about who did the thing only female people can do and gave birth last year, poodle so we know how big this issue really is?

Because if we have to change the language of millions for the sake of a handful of people we need to know why we are doing this and what the consequences are of our 'empathy'.

This is not a zero sum game.

It's all about uncoupling the word 'female' and the word 'woman' and the word 'mother' from their biological moorings and setting them adrift so that male people can claim and appropriate them.

I entirely agree with what Daisies said

This is an ideological battle between those who support a continuation of a sex based society and those who seek a gender based society. The two cannot coexist. “Women and birthing people” is the language of gender identity and queer theory being imposed on all of us, even the heretics, even the majority who may be unaware of what is going on.

Another data gap. How many women find the language of gender identity dehumanising, confusing or even frightening if they are supportive of the traditional sex based understanding of the world? How many of us know that we will not be welcomed anywhere that uses the language of gender identity because of our heresy? How many are excluded by so called inclusive language due to not understanding it or the other reasons I have given? Why do that potentially much larger group matter so much less than adherents of gender identity? The reason can only be ideology. And misogyny.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

The point certainly from erish and others seems to be, i don't believe these people are not women regardless of what they think, and they should just stop being silly and recognise that's what they are.

They are, regardless of what they, I or anyone else thinks, because they are adult females and that's what the word means. Don't try to put other words in my mouth, like Birthrights did with Milli.

Sex and gender are not the same thing. A female person is well within their rights to decide they don't wish to identify as a woman, or use she/her pronouns. They may also wish to identify as a man.

You would be up in arms if someone referred to you as cis, so why do you think you have the right to misgender females who don't want to identify as women? Who is it harming if a charity uses inclusive language to signify that if a non binary person or transman needs them, their identity will be respected?

You would be up in arms if someone referred to you as cis, so why do you think you have the right to misgender females who don't want to identify as women?

Because I don't believe in gender identity ideology and think other things are more important and constructive than pandering to its believers. That's why, on both counts.

@Needapoodle

Why empathy only for this tiny group of “birthing people”?

Because, again, because you missed it, this tiny group of people are looking at birthrights because they are traumatized . If you can't see why traumatized people should be given empathy then you've really got a problem.

Okay but no empathy for the much larger group of traumatised women in healthcare, in refuges, in prisons, in the workplace, in sport and leisure activities or in the place where there should be no question of diluting their importance- maternity care?

A society based on gender identity and queer theory instead of sex hurts women in every way and everywhere.

And no one is directly being "misgendered" personally, to their faces. They are just not the only people that matter here.

This is not a healthy way to live life, compelling other people's adherence to an implausible belief system.

Okay but no empathy for the much larger group of traumatised women in healthcare, in refuges, in prisons, in the workplace, in sport and leisure activities

I can safely say there is zero empathy for these women from most trans activists and their allies, particularly if they raise their concerns about female erasure.

Okay but no empathy for the much larger group of traumatised women in healthcare, in refuges, in prisons, in the workplace, in sport and leisure activities or in the place where there should be no question of diluting their importance- maternity care?

We are specifically talking about birthrights here. Start another thread if you want to talk to me about those situations because they are not comparable at all.

This is really interesting. When accused of transphobia GC feminists are all... No, we include female people including non binary people and transmen

Clearly not. Or not if it doesn't suit you, anyway

I can safely say there is zero empathy for these women from most trans activists and their allies, particularly if they raise their concerns about female erasure.

I can safely say you have zero empathy for females if they identify as trans or non binary. You've said as much. So really, what makes you any better than a TRA? You respect and fight for women as long as they're the right sort of woman.

Cross posted with kettle. Seems I'm not the only one who sees it.

Needapoodle would you also fight for a society based on veganism so as not to perpetuate the trauma vegans suffering witnessing the suffering of animals? What about a society based on Islam to alleviate the trauma of Muslims faced with hyper sexuality, pork and alcohol? What about a society where the spoken word is illegal and we only use BSL to communicate?

Why not? Why gender identity and queer theory?

Also why do you assume that all those who identify as trans and non-binary are so mentally fragile? Isn’t that rather discriminatory of you? I don’t think that it is right to say that an entire demographic is so seriously mentally ill that we must re structure society for them and change our language across the board, especially when they have worked so hard to decouple being trans from the mental illness of gender dysphoria.